I'm really going to do it this time, I promise! I've been running Magnepan MMGs for the past 15 years, but the buzzing is getting worse due to coil delamination. They sound amazing if you're sitting in the right spot, but I'd like something with better off axis and BASS. I don't want to run a sub currently due to preventing waking up a 1.5 yr old, so I'd like something that can run without. I think I'll put shakers in the couch.
My room is 37' L, and 33'W where the speakers are, narrows to 15' rearward of listening position (most of my house is one room), which is about 12' back. As you can see, the left speaker is in a corner, and I can't come too far out from the wall.
I don't want to scratch DIY, but I want to build a known, reputable kit. I believe the main difference between a $1000 DIY speaker and a $20000 speaker is cosmetics. I've built several ugly speakers in the past, but will spend more time making a pretty one this time. I would prefer a bookshelf, but floor standing is okay as well. Any thoughts on the below kits, or any other suggestions? I'd like to spend as little as possible, but would rather spend more for a better speaker than cheap out and wonder what could have been. Oh I forgot: 90% HT, 10% music (all kinds)
Bagby Helios
Rasmusson Elsinore mk6
CSS 2TD-X
Murphy BMR
CSS 1TD-X
My room is 37' L, and 33'W where the speakers are, narrows to 15' rearward of listening position (most of my house is one room), which is about 12' back. As you can see, the left speaker is in a corner, and I can't come too far out from the wall.
I don't want to scratch DIY, but I want to build a known, reputable kit. I believe the main difference between a $1000 DIY speaker and a $20000 speaker is cosmetics. I've built several ugly speakers in the past, but will spend more time making a pretty one this time. I would prefer a bookshelf, but floor standing is okay as well. Any thoughts on the below kits, or any other suggestions? I'd like to spend as little as possible, but would rather spend more for a better speaker than cheap out and wonder what could have been. Oh I forgot: 90% HT, 10% music (all kinds)
Bagby Helios
Rasmusson Elsinore mk6
CSS 2TD-X
Murphy BMR
CSS 1TD-X
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I have the Helios kit. I have read about CSS Audio kits but never heard them.
The Helios sound great, very clean, very powerful, very life-like, but need some volume to come alive, not all that efficient.
CSS is always praised for their bass. Helios also has amazing bass. I assume they are equals here.
If i had to guess, i would say the Helios might have an advantage in the high frequencies, although just based on cost of the tweeter, have not heard the CSS.
I just read something, not sure if it is true, but somebody wrote the Helios had to be driven to 113db before distortion could be measured! Helios probably have an advantage in overall output, having 9.5 inch woofer instead of 7 inch. But how loud do you really need it? and assume you already have a separate subwoofer that will be doing a lot of the work in HT.
Since CSS 1TDx is the very definition of "well known & reputable kit", that is what i would recommend for you. I have never read a bad review of CSS. Occasionally, someone will say they have a different preference, but only after they say the CSS is excellent. It is also known as one of the easiest kits to build. it is optionally available in a birch plywood flatpack or MDF flatpack. It is cheaper than Helios. You could get (3) 1TDX (one for center) for less than the price of (2) Helios. I am sure the 2TDx are great as well. I think they sound exactly the same as the 1TDx but with higher output.
The Helios sound great, very clean, very powerful, very life-like, but need some volume to come alive, not all that efficient.
CSS is always praised for their bass. Helios also has amazing bass. I assume they are equals here.
If i had to guess, i would say the Helios might have an advantage in the high frequencies, although just based on cost of the tweeter, have not heard the CSS.
I just read something, not sure if it is true, but somebody wrote the Helios had to be driven to 113db before distortion could be measured! Helios probably have an advantage in overall output, having 9.5 inch woofer instead of 7 inch. But how loud do you really need it? and assume you already have a separate subwoofer that will be doing a lot of the work in HT.
Since CSS 1TDx is the very definition of "well known & reputable kit", that is what i would recommend for you. I have never read a bad review of CSS. Occasionally, someone will say they have a different preference, but only after they say the CSS is excellent. It is also known as one of the easiest kits to build. it is optionally available in a birch plywood flatpack or MDF flatpack. It is cheaper than Helios. You could get (3) 1TDX (one for center) for less than the price of (2) Helios. I am sure the 2TDx are great as well. I think they sound exactly the same as the 1TDx but with higher output.
You can trust geof bagby designs.have karios its good but would love to hear helios with that waveguided berillium tweeter. Very exotic.
When Jeff and Javad debuted the original Helios at InDIYana 2019, Javad said he had to have the output to 113 to get the HD to even register on the screen.
"Oh I forgot: 90% HT,"
Get a surround system and a nice big center channel. Or the same speaker for the left, center, and right.
I find home theater very forgiving. It won't take $1000 per passive speaker.
Get a surround system and a nice big center channel. Or the same speaker for the left, center, and right.
I find home theater very forgiving. It won't take $1000 per passive speaker.
@HeadShake - reason i am still recommending $700 per speaker, or whatever the 1TDX is going for, because he said he would rather spend a little more than wonder what might have been. Of course you are correct, there are a hundred other options that could be cheaper and "just as good" but from the reviews i have seen on youtube the CSS product is impressive. It could possibly be described as best sound available for that price, or at least in that neighborhood.
Check your local Craigslist, big speakers sell for small money (compared to new) because they are so expensive to ship and that limits the pool of buyers.
There are also many HT sets as well.
There are also many HT sets as well.
I had my Helios build at this year's InDIYana event. As is usual, in person people are always cordial and polite! With that said, the feedback was quite positive, to the extent that many asked to hear it again after the judging was complete. Dan Poinsett (CSS), Javad and Paul Carmody were in attendance and maybe they will chime in on their impressions. My real intent of bringing them this year was to get feedback from an extremely experienced crowd and to hear them in a room much bigger than my own. I like to change out gear about every year or so, but I am struggling to replace them with a commercial model for less than $10-15K or so (they are that good to my ears). Most speakers have a strength and also compromises, and the Helios has none that I can think of. They play big when called upon to do so, but my typical listening is at lower levels which, imo, they are exceptional at. The CSS offerings are targeted at a price-point (their new $5K collaboration with a famous YouTuber not withstanding!) and I assume they perform quite well at their designated price. The Helios is much more of a no-holds-barred built when price is much less of a consideration and I think the outcome of that comes through vs designs when price is considered. I also did my best to build the cabinets to the highest (non-resonant) standard that a DIY guy can reasonably achieve. I do not have thin skin, and I would welcome feedback from the group now that they are comfortably behind their keyboards! ;-)
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I found them to sound very much like I remember Jeff/Javad's pair sounding back in 2019. I thought the CLD was very effective.
You kinda one upped yourself in building what Jeff felt was his best work, or at least it is stated that way in his writeup. When building something that sounds this good, you'll be hard pressed to surpass it.
Thank you for coming...
You kinda one upped yourself in building what Jeff felt was his best work, or at least it is stated that way in his writeup. When building something that sounds this good, you'll be hard pressed to surpass it.
Thank you for coming...
Hi Eric, I had been hoping to hear the Helios for some time, and I am thankful I had the opportunity to hear a pair... thanks for bringing them to the event. It was nice to have a chance to speak with you.
As Wolf said, you will be hard pressed to find a kit which is superior to the Helios. At this rarefied level of performance, personal preference becomes the more decisive factor rather than simply performance, because all of the possible contenders have superb performance, and it comes down to what you prefer.
I am not surprised. With a driver cost of ~ $1700, a commercial enterprise that produced the speaker in North America would have to sell the final product at retail price of about $14000 to make a reasonable profit and pay their people a competitive wage. Going back over 30 years, retail price = 8x driver cost has been a reasonable estimate for pricing speakers. If the cabinets are manufactured in China, then a little less than 8x... maybe as low as 6x. If the cabinets are really complex, maybe it becomes 10x. Direct sales which bypass a brick-and-mortar store will obviously happen at a lower price as well.
I would not be in any hurry to replace those Helios. Enjoy them for a while...
j.
Ben, thanks very much for the positive feedback! I'm confident I can count on you for unbiased, honest opinions.
Jim, thanks for the kind words! I'm not in a huge hurry to add to the collection, but I am always wanting to try something new. Maybe a build with the SS Ellipticor drivers?...
@BoostedIS
I appreciate your comments about the Helios. Great work! It is always good to have confirmation the kit i chose is well regarded, so i don't HAVE to think about trying to replace them but just be happy. I was being driven insane by folks on different websites saying a kit can't compare, blah, blah, blah,... 🙂
Photo is from "bring your Helios to work day!"
I appreciate your comments about the Helios. Great work! It is always good to have confirmation the kit i chose is well regarded, so i don't HAVE to think about trying to replace them but just be happy. I was being driven insane by folks on different websites saying a kit can't compare, blah, blah, blah,... 🙂
Photo is from "bring your Helios to work day!"