Hey there! This is my first post but I'm a long time reader. Relatively inexperienced, but with good resources. Trying to build a nice system which could be used 50/50 for music and movies.
What I have: AV Reciever, Cerwin Vega E312's, Diy 18" Martysub (currently broken).
Wood/Metalshop.
What I want: DAC/Preamps + Diy Solid-state Amplifier (looking at Alephs), Diy speakers (looked at so many designs but can't decide)
What I listen to: 50% rock, (Led Zepplin, Dire Straits, Iron Maiden, Pink Floyd, Kaleo etc.) 15% electronic/pop (Infected mushroom, the XX, London grammar) 15% Bluegrass (Sarah Jarosz), 20% classical? (movie scores, symphony stuff, big band).
How do a choose a Dac?
--Of my $2000 I was hoping to spend like $150-$300 on something that could reliably feed 2 monoblocks or 1 stereo amp
How do I choose a Diy Amp?
--I want something Class-A preferably 40-100 watts a channel, would be ok with 20-40 with a high sensitivity speaker $300-$500
Which speakers?
--I like some Bass (would prefer to run these without the Sub for 95% of music because the Sub is low Fi). I want to be capable of High SPL's (not all the time, but want to hit those 105db peaks for movies). High sensitivity (92db+) is also preferred. I was thinking of something similar to those Big JBL and Klipsch horns. $500-$1000
Any advice is appreciated, I know that I'm trying to do a lot on a little and that I don't have easy design requirements, but it's hard to know what amp to build without a speaker in mind and what speaker to build without an amp in mind.
Thanks!
What I have: AV Reciever, Cerwin Vega E312's, Diy 18" Martysub (currently broken).
Wood/Metalshop.
What I want: DAC/Preamps + Diy Solid-state Amplifier (looking at Alephs), Diy speakers (looked at so many designs but can't decide)
What I listen to: 50% rock, (Led Zepplin, Dire Straits, Iron Maiden, Pink Floyd, Kaleo etc.) 15% electronic/pop (Infected mushroom, the XX, London grammar) 15% Bluegrass (Sarah Jarosz), 20% classical? (movie scores, symphony stuff, big band).
How do a choose a Dac?
--Of my $2000 I was hoping to spend like $150-$300 on something that could reliably feed 2 monoblocks or 1 stereo amp
How do I choose a Diy Amp?
--I want something Class-A preferably 40-100 watts a channel, would be ok with 20-40 with a high sensitivity speaker $300-$500
Which speakers?
--I like some Bass (would prefer to run these without the Sub for 95% of music because the Sub is low Fi). I want to be capable of High SPL's (not all the time, but want to hit those 105db peaks for movies). High sensitivity (92db+) is also preferred. I was thinking of something similar to those Big JBL and Klipsch horns. $500-$1000
Any advice is appreciated, I know that I'm trying to do a lot on a little and that I don't have easy design requirements, but it's hard to know what amp to build without a speaker in mind and what speaker to build without an amp in mind.
Thanks!
If it was mine, I'd go for 2x15" plus a good compression driver. Ports tuned for 30Hz or so (which will cover your electronic music just fine), and cross to the compression driver at, say, 500Hz.
Get something sturdy, like an EV DH1a, for HF and you're good.
I'd probably give the compression driver a 10w/ch class-A amplifier, and the 15"s a good couple of hundred watts a side, class AB or class D. Add a MiniDSP (or whatever other signal processor you might fancy), apply EQ, active crossovers, time alignment, etc, and then sit back and enjoy.
It'd be as loud as a smallish PA system if you wanted, but I'd expect a good overall sound too, staying clean at very high levels. You won't need a sub with a pair of 15"s going to 30Hz, unless you want the very bottom end stuff. In that case, either tune the ports lower or go sealed, and EQ the bass rolloff. The bass EQ is what will end up needing plenty of power, not the sort of thing 10s of watts can always do.
If cabinet size is an issue, you might need to rethink some of your design goals: high sensitivity, LF extension, small size. Pick any two.
Chris
Get something sturdy, like an EV DH1a, for HF and you're good.
I'd probably give the compression driver a 10w/ch class-A amplifier, and the 15"s a good couple of hundred watts a side, class AB or class D. Add a MiniDSP (or whatever other signal processor you might fancy), apply EQ, active crossovers, time alignment, etc, and then sit back and enjoy.
It'd be as loud as a smallish PA system if you wanted, but I'd expect a good overall sound too, staying clean at very high levels. You won't need a sub with a pair of 15"s going to 30Hz, unless you want the very bottom end stuff. In that case, either tune the ports lower or go sealed, and EQ the bass rolloff. The bass EQ is what will end up needing plenty of power, not the sort of thing 10s of watts can always do.
If cabinet size is an issue, you might need to rethink some of your design goals: high sensitivity, LF extension, small size. Pick any two.
Chris
The way forward is via a good list of everything.
Budget is a good place to start.
But you need to consider everything from the space, the environment, the finish (or lack of) required for the system & speakers, what you can and can't do, the SPL you want/need, the real world frequency response, what sort of distortion levels can you stand (most speakers are high, not low...) etc etc etc etc...
Also, what is your reference point for "sound" in general.
Some folks are "more sensitive" to certain aspects of sound than others...
...what's the hands down most amazing system you've ever heard, if any?
If price were no object, and FOR YOUR SPACE, what system would you gather up and place??
With a full picture you can eliminate all sorts of stuff... then you can get into the technical merits of different approaches.
Shortly after that you will have read thousands of pages, and your head will explode.
😀
_-_-
Budget is a good place to start.
But you need to consider everything from the space, the environment, the finish (or lack of) required for the system & speakers, what you can and can't do, the SPL you want/need, the real world frequency response, what sort of distortion levels can you stand (most speakers are high, not low...) etc etc etc etc...
Also, what is your reference point for "sound" in general.
Some folks are "more sensitive" to certain aspects of sound than others...
...what's the hands down most amazing system you've ever heard, if any?
If price were no object, and FOR YOUR SPACE, what system would you gather up and place??
With a full picture you can eliminate all sorts of stuff... then you can get into the technical merits of different approaches.
Shortly after that you will have read thousands of pages, and your head will explode.
😀
_-_-
Maybe start by building two good subs, and power them from a used pro or semi-pro power amplifier. And an HDMI pre-processor which can act as a DAC.
Aleph and JBL sound really good for rock, pop and jazz. I would recommend 15" + horn 2 way.
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... Have you checked out the stuff from DIY Sound Group yet?
Those speaker kits seem like really good value per dollar. Fusion 15 Sentinel is $372.20 each with free shipping in the US. Flat pack is 69.20 extra, well worth it for a hassle free first build.
But maybe the The Maximus-12 Kit is a better option for you, lower sensitivity, but slightly more flexible solution. $430 each.
If you have a bigger budget and enough room the Intrusive 1899 would be the more insane path to choose. $905 each
I have no direct experience with these kits, but they are great value based on the parts alone, and all the designs seem very well thought out.
Personally I'd go for some Fusion 6 Vibe at $97 each, and some sealed subs, mostly because the shipping to Norway is a pain.
At any rate I'd recommend you choose a kit as your first build, either that or go directly to the mulichannel active route with programmable xo, measurement microphone and the works.
Those speaker kits seem like really good value per dollar. Fusion 15 Sentinel is $372.20 each with free shipping in the US. Flat pack is 69.20 extra, well worth it for a hassle free first build.
But maybe the The Maximus-12 Kit is a better option for you, lower sensitivity, but slightly more flexible solution. $430 each.
If you have a bigger budget and enough room the Intrusive 1899 would be the more insane path to choose. $905 each
I have no direct experience with these kits, but they are great value based on the parts alone, and all the designs seem very well thought out.
Personally I'd go for some Fusion 6 Vibe at $97 each, and some sealed subs, mostly because the shipping to Norway is a pain.
At any rate I'd recommend you choose a kit as your first build, either that or go directly to the mulichannel active route with programmable xo, measurement microphone and the works.
If I were to think about an all new system. I would focus on active, powered loudspeakers. Only after that decision, would i consider the budget for the remaining equipment.
What are your sources? That will help determine your DAC. And as you mention movies, are you thinking of going with a center channel and surrounds?
Despite the name, those Cerwin Vega speakers are not as bad as you might think. 😉 What is it about them that you do and don't like?
Despite the name, those Cerwin Vega speakers are not as bad as you might think. 😉 What is it about them that you do and don't like?
I agree with Pano; according to their brochure those Cerwin-Vegas are 98 dB efficient. If true, that could open up a lot of possibilities as (1) you could put the bulk of your funds toward better sources, amps, etc., and (2) your amplifier choices wouldn't be limited to 100W-plus. The Vegas could always be sold later if you find you don't like them.
Just remember, you're building an audio system - and a good system takes time to build. But speaking for myself that's all part of the fun!
Just remember, you're building an audio system - and a good system takes time to build. But speaking for myself that's all part of the fun!
Nah but you could maybe lay the foundations. Two powered Focal monitors and a pair of sub's can be got for a good price in the states. That solves the amp and speaker issue and leaves enough for a decent DAC. That should make a decent system for movies as well as music.
Touché. Definitely not if you're dream is flying (aviation)! But look out there; lots of stuff to be had if you're willing to look.
As Mr Zenith says, lots of stuff in that price range. Shootz, you could even build new boxes for your Cerwin Vegas, if you think the stock box is not well enough built. Consumer speakers after are not.
Overwhelmed by the response! Thanks, everyone. I'll try and hit everyone
Probably would go without the center for a while, Vegas would take over surrounds.
I love the vegas, not used to describing their sound characteristic, but I think what I want is more clarity, the mids/highs aren't super realistic when listening to some music.Bass is definitly sufficient, but drums don't really smack you the way they do in real life. Does that help?
SPL looking for about 105db sounding clean.
Veneer or vinyl wrap finish was what I was thinking.
Not sure how to quantify "real world response and distortion levels" I've been living comfortably with highish distortion, but would like lower.
Best system I have heard? This ZU system at the RMAF 2016 in the link blew me away and was the most fun I've had listening to music, but it may have been the music/environment. I've enjoyed systems of all varieties. https://audiograb.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/rmaf-zu-peachtree-02825.jpg
My Computer/Xbox are sources.
Probably would go without the center for a while, Vegas would take over surrounds.
I love the vegas, not used to describing their sound characteristic, but I think what I want is more clarity, the mids/highs aren't super realistic when listening to some music.Bass is definitly sufficient, but drums don't really smack you the way they do in real life. Does that help?
I would like to build an Amp/Speakers. I'm not inclined to try and build active speakers.
Sounds like something I would like! Also seems very complicated. Could you point to a proven design? I'm not sure I'm up for a design process.
That's tough, the space changes every time I move. I would want something that works decently in a range of rooms (current one 320 ft^2).
SPL looking for about 105db sounding clean.
Veneer or vinyl wrap finish was what I was thinking.
Not sure how to quantify "real world response and distortion levels" I've been living comfortably with highish distortion, but would like lower.
Best system I have heard? This ZU system at the RMAF 2016 in the link blew me away and was the most fun I've had listening to music, but it may have been the music/environment. I've enjoyed systems of all varieties. https://audiograb.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/rmaf-zu-peachtree-02825.jpg
Recommended design?
Yep, have strongly considered them, I just wonder how they stack up to other sytems.
Not sure if they are 98db sensetive, because I can't trust the ratings on my receiver, hooked them up to El-Cheapo Lepai 2x20W and I think they get sufficiently loud. It's just hard to say because I would like a little more, but the little amp only stays clean for so long. I think 20 very clean watts would be fine.I agree with Pano; according to their brochure those Cerwin-Vegas are 98 dB efficient. If true, that could open up a lot of possibilities as (1) you could put the bulk of your funds toward better sources, amps, etc., and (2) your amplifier choices wouldn't be limited to 100W-plus. The Vegas could always be sold later if you find you don't like them.
Just remember, you're building an audio system - and a good system takes time to build. But speaking for myself that's all part of the fun!
The difference in level between a 20W amp and a 100W amp isn't as much as you might think.
Thanks for the replies on the other questions. You might need to start crunching numbers. For Example, if you wanted to build twin 15s and a horn, how much would that cost you? If you bought a Cerwin Vega twin 15, that would blow your budget right there.
Thanks for the replies on the other questions. You might need to start crunching numbers. For Example, if you wanted to build twin 15s and a horn, how much would that cost you? If you bought a Cerwin Vega twin 15, that would blow your budget right there.
I'm thinking more about this and really like the idea, but it would have to be progressive because 4 15"s (Jbl226H?) and horns break the budget for now. How good is the DAC on the miniDSP HD 2x4? Could it work as my DAC, sub integration and room correction for now? Then later I could use it as an active crossover for my speakers?
I'm afraid I don't know enough about MiniDSP to be sure. By the time they were cheap enough to buy over here, I'd already gone a different route. I do know that a few people were picky over the standard 2x4's DAC, but the HD ought to be a good step up.
Here's what I'd probably go for:
Four of these: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-pa385s-8-15-pro-subwoofer-4-vc-8-ohm--295-040
https://www.parts-express.com/bc-me75-2-constant-directivity-horn-90-x-40-2-bolt--294-6182
Then shop around for a pair of EV DH1a drivers. They're really heavy, so PA operators are selling them pretty cheap. Don't be afraid to buy a pair with horns. The horns themselves have decent resale value.
The driver complement will run to around 1200-1300 dollars. All I did was find a fairly large horn that'd fit the 2" exit on the EVs while loading to a suitably low frequency, 500Hz. The 15"s are decent, but ultimately they're sub drivers, so the midrange (1kHz and up) will be rough. Midbass 15"s are often smooth out to 2kHz or so, but make sacrifices in low-frequency power handling. If you take a good compression driver, you can use the sub drivers for what they're good at (making lots of bass) and let the compression driver do the rest.
You'd have around 800 dollars left to spend on amplifiers, DSP, wood, glue, and finishing. You could, if you wanted, build your own little class A amplifier to power the EV drivers. They'll be receiving most of the frequency range, and they're very efficient, so it makes some sense to give them a smallish but very nice amplifier. The 15"s are big and brutish (when asked), so a couple of hundred watts a side will be plenty of headroom, or enough to throw a good party. Rest assured, I expect this lot implemented well will sound good at any volume. Indeed, when people try good, powerful speakers for the first time, its often much louder than they realise, because they're so used to little HiFi speakers starting to distort as you put more power in.
If you decide to persue this route, allocate 100 dollars and get a measurement microphone and a USB soundcard that has phantom power. When used in conjunction with pretty much any EQ device, this will be the best audio-related 100 dollars you've ever spent. I promise.
So, can you get a MiniDSP 2x4HD, amps, and cabinetry done for 700 dollars?
Chris
Some good advice there, but allow me to be a bit different. As Chris said, get a measurement mic setup first. Then I'd save most of the budget for now, and just buy an active crossover and build a few cheap chipamp/gainclones to drive your existing speakers.
This will give you a taste of building without spending too much for now, get you used to measuring and setting stuff up, (all of which you'll need when you progress), and even if you later upgrade the speakers and amps, the chipamps will be great for 2nd or 3rd systems, or as presents for relations getting into proper sound, (both my nieces have chipamps and speaker systems I made for them).
But remember, whatever you do, have fun doing it. 😀
This will give you a taste of building without spending too much for now, get you used to measuring and setting stuff up, (all of which you'll need when you progress), and even if you later upgrade the speakers and amps, the chipamps will be great for 2nd or 3rd systems, or as presents for relations getting into proper sound, (both my nieces have chipamps and speaker systems I made for them).
But remember, whatever you do, have fun doing it. 😀
Good idea, Pink! If Wags wants to learn and play, that's a great approach. And he'll be better armed to do DIY battles in the future.
I was doing some back of the napkin calculations on building a punchy 3-way system with twin 15s. That would eat up a large portion of the budget, right there.
I was doing some back of the napkin calculations on building a punchy 3-way system with twin 15s. That would eat up a large portion of the budget, right there.
Tons of great advice, thanks! Sadly I got sidetracked and set off in another direction entirely. Currently building the Pass BA3 and will be starting a separate thread for the build thread soon. Definitely having fun though 😎
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