I came across this listing on Craigslist.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/msg/294947822.html
I have emailed the guy back and forth a few times.
For what its worth, He has 200,000 or MORE tubes for sale with an asking (negotiable) $5000.00
If any of you guys live up in Michigan near GRAND RAPIDS it might just be a goldmine of an investment.
He said it is an all or nothing deal so no picking sorting ect
I actually considered buying them, But I am finding I just plain do not have the time right now for this endeavor.
So, I thought I would pass this on to you guys!
Quote from Email:
Trout
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/msg/294947822.html
I have emailed the guy back and forth a few times.
For what its worth, He has 200,000 or MORE tubes for sale with an asking (negotiable) $5000.00
If any of you guys live up in Michigan near GRAND RAPIDS it might just be a goldmine of an investment.
He said it is an all or nothing deal so no picking sorting ect
I actually considered buying them, But I am finding I just plain do not have the time right now for this endeavor.
So, I thought I would pass this on to you guys!
Quote from Email:
Trout
Lessee... this place has about 60k members. Sounds like the mother of all Group Buys...😉
Seriously, sounds like a good opportunity. I guess the shipping to Europe would be the same amount again...
Jan Didden
Seriously, sounds like a good opportunity. I guess the shipping to Europe would be the same amount again...
Jan Didden
I dunno. A bunch of used/untest pulls? I suppose if 10% of them are of a useful type, and 25% of those are in usable condition, then let's see:
200000 * .10 * .25 = 5000 useful and usable tubes. $1 each for a bunch of used tubes doesn't excite me.
I see small collections at auctions for about the same (or less) money per tube, and much of it is NOS. I don't bother with those because I really have no use for a bunch of radio and TV tubes.
-- Dave
200000 * .10 * .25 = 5000 useful and usable tubes. $1 each for a bunch of used tubes doesn't excite me.
I see small collections at auctions for about the same (or less) money per tube, and much of it is NOS. I don't bother with those because I really have no use for a bunch of radio and TV tubes.
-- Dave
Dave, you beat me to it. The way these are described (in buckets, etc.), they must be pulls. Probably a lot of old TV repair types that you can get at electronic swap meets and hamfests for pennies a piece. The pack rat in me was tempted, but I had a moment of meditation and the urge passed.
Lets see, this sounds familiar. I got a similar lot for free, well in exchange for 2 days of unloading 2 semi loads of stuff and stacking it in a warehouse. 20 amp 3 phase variacs are heavy! The tubes were stored in similar packaging (boxes, barrels, grocery bags, etc.) Some were indeed pulls, but most were new from military bulk packaging. The packaging had been mostly eaten by the rats, which brings me to the real problem, the packaging material after it had been through the rat! About 50% of the tubes had to be tossed because they were broken, or the pins were severely corroded (rat "stuff" is corrosive). I got to examine the guts of just about every possible type of 807 tube. There were hundreds of broken ones.
I have had these tubes for several years now, and I still have not seen them all. I believe that I have found all of the good stuff. There was several hundred pounds of sweep tubes, about a third of them are 6 volt. 24 pulled 833A's. Wrapped in newspaper were 4 NOS GE 845's. They all work well. There were also a few used but good 845's and 211's. I have hundreds of 1625's and 807's.
I have thousands of 6AL5's (why would someone save these) and 2D21's. There are also large boxes full of tubes that may be useful for audio, but require some testing time. 5670's, 6AU6's, 6J6's, 6CL6's, 6AG7, 6AC7, 6GH8 and so forth. I have enough 6AS7's to build the mother of all OTL's. Someday I will have enough time to build it.
Yeah, there are a lot of 5U4's. They are almost all puls. Most look like they are toast. Several hundred 12AU7's and some 12AX7's. Most of these work.
I have about 500 pounds of thyratrons and other useless military surplus tubes. They didn't sell on Ebay.
If anyone is serious, go see the tubes. Examine the condition of several boxes. If they are stored (he mentioned a 10 X10 X10 cube) in boxes stacked on top of each other (mine were) expect most of the tubes on the bottom to be crushed. If these have been stored for some time, expect that the "audio tubes" may have been sold off already.
Think about where you are going to put them. Mine are in a rental storage warehouse. It costs $200 a month. That adds up to $2400 per year. I have had these tubes for several years. Free tubes start to get expensive. These are not free.
I have had these tubes for several years now, and I still have not seen them all. I believe that I have found all of the good stuff. There was several hundred pounds of sweep tubes, about a third of them are 6 volt. 24 pulled 833A's. Wrapped in newspaper were 4 NOS GE 845's. They all work well. There were also a few used but good 845's and 211's. I have hundreds of 1625's and 807's.
I have thousands of 6AL5's (why would someone save these) and 2D21's. There are also large boxes full of tubes that may be useful for audio, but require some testing time. 5670's, 6AU6's, 6J6's, 6CL6's, 6AG7, 6AC7, 6GH8 and so forth. I have enough 6AS7's to build the mother of all OTL's. Someday I will have enough time to build it.
Yeah, there are a lot of 5U4's. They are almost all puls. Most look like they are toast. Several hundred 12AU7's and some 12AX7's. Most of these work.
I have about 500 pounds of thyratrons and other useless military surplus tubes. They didn't sell on Ebay.
If anyone is serious, go see the tubes. Examine the condition of several boxes. If they are stored (he mentioned a 10 X10 X10 cube) in boxes stacked on top of each other (mine were) expect most of the tubes on the bottom to be crushed. If these have been stored for some time, expect that the "audio tubes" may have been sold off already.
Think about where you are going to put them. Mine are in a rental storage warehouse. It costs $200 a month. That adds up to $2400 per year. I have had these tubes for several years. Free tubes start to get expensive. These are not free.
In the UK one or two of the main tube sellers are getting out. Business has dropped to a quarter or less of what it was. Expect a steady stream of tube sellers to be getting out of the market. Ron Ford recently went in Canada, and he was very big. Looks like the most likely scenario is mountains of tubes in warehouses. The guitar tubes will sell for a while. I'm personally keeping hold of DHTs because I think they'll survive a lot of the other tubes. But for most of the tubes - even good to great ones like 6J5, 7N7, I think it's hasta la vista baby. I think that's the most likely future scenario, frankly. Tubes that are not in current equipment will stagnate, and the DIY market is likely to shrink very considerably.
Dave Cigna said:
Thing is, the $5000.00 is not in stone, sorta like buying a used car, ya Kick the tires, point out the drip stain under the car, offer the guy a low ball price, when he realizes its his only offer,
Bingo.
Trout
tubelab.com said:
The painful part is not knowing whether it's gold or garbage. I was rummaging through the pile for a p-p amp front end tube and came across a unfamiliar sleeve that referenced as a version of 6J6A. On the bench this uni-cathode twin triode appears to be excellent for audio. Some of the compactrons I bought for testing hold terrific promise and are being dumped at a dollar or two a pop.
So I'm thinking...get them for a lowball price, and have a party. Invite all the tube guys in these here parts and take over the back yard. It could go on for a whole weekend I suspect( with good weather assumed ). BBQ, tube sorting and sunshine!
cheers,
Douglas
cheers,
Douglas
Bandersnatch said:
Hey your up his way even, He's in Grand Rapids. It would be worth the drive just to see what he really has!
I thought about going up there myself yesterday, 5 hours each way. But, my gal would kill me If I brought that many more home. It took forever to thin out the last 8,000.
I mentioned it and got the old look, You know the one.
A snarly " just go" haha
Trout
I had some time to experiment with a few tubes. Many of the 6J6A type tubes have a 4 digit military number (I don't remember it). These work very good as a LTP phase splitter. There were a few others that I put aside for further experimentation. That was almost 2 years ago.
I have a friend that is a second generation tube seller. He has a warehouse with over 1 million tubes! I forwarded this to him.
I tried that. If the tubes are all unsorted (as mine are) It could take forever to sort them out. I offer some observations:
The quality of the sorting goes down as the quantity of beer consumed goes up.
The MTTB (mean time to breakage) goes down with the quantity of beer consumed.
Unbroken tubes float in the swimming pool, broken ones do not.
The automatic pool cleaner can not digest a vacuum tube.
The lawn mower doesn't like them either.
Tubes will melt if tossed in the barbie (on the burner near the flames) They slowly shrivel up from the vacuum inside.
Some kinds (0A2, 2D21) glow brightly when placed in the microwave (I have pictures).
Yes we had a lot of fun. Finding broken glass with bare feet (for the following 6 months) is not fun. No valuable tubes were harmed (that I know of). How many 6AL5's can you possibly need. Finding a box full of 6384's is cool, opening it to find them ALL broken is not.
I have a friend that is a second generation tube seller. He has a warehouse with over 1 million tubes! I forwarded this to him.
I tried that. If the tubes are all unsorted (as mine are) It could take forever to sort them out. I offer some observations:
The quality of the sorting goes down as the quantity of beer consumed goes up.
The MTTB (mean time to breakage) goes down with the quantity of beer consumed.
Unbroken tubes float in the swimming pool, broken ones do not.
The automatic pool cleaner can not digest a vacuum tube.
The lawn mower doesn't like them either.
Tubes will melt if tossed in the barbie (on the burner near the flames) They slowly shrivel up from the vacuum inside.
Some kinds (0A2, 2D21) glow brightly when placed in the microwave (I have pictures).
Yes we had a lot of fun. Finding broken glass with bare feet (for the following 6 months) is not fun. No valuable tubes were harmed (that I know of). How many 6AL5's can you possibly need. Finding a box full of 6384's is cool, opening it to find them ALL broken is not.
"Finding a box full of 6384's is cool, opening it to find them ALL broken is not."
A tragedy is what that is... it hurts ME to hear that.
btw is it just me or does the light bulb icon look like an exploding tube to these obsessed eyes?
A tragedy is what that is... it hurts ME to hear that.
btw is it just me or does the light bulb icon look like an exploding tube to these obsessed eyes?
That's very worrying - I thought this hobby had really taken off after the emergence of the internet. The trade on ebay seems to be thriving, with prices steadily on the increase, especially among Asian buyers.
The other (quite real) possibility is that i am living a rather sheltered existence in a fool's paradise...
pm
tubelab.com said:
6101 is one of the 6J6 types. Also goes by 6J6WA. Not sure what makes this one special, perhaps ruggedized or shock tested. The rarer one is the 6099. That one is both ruggedized and matched. It is like the 6SU7 to 6SL7 relationship. 5964 is another. The TDSL shows a few more...
I have had good match in resistive loaded diff amps in all of them. When run as the bottom eleemnt in a cascode about 10% match well. The other 90% are spread across the map from bad to ugly...🙂
cheers,
Douglas
I believe that mine are 6101's although I would have to look to be sure. There were several bulk packages from RCA that were labeled 6J6WA. The individual tubes were coated with that translucent greenish coating that is seen on military PC boards from the post WWII era. The 6101 number is screened on top of this coating. Some tubes still have the RCA 6J6WA lettering under the coating. I have a large box full of 6SL7's that got the same treatment. Many of the tubes had lost their vacuum despite no physical damage. I tested some of the survivors and found that only about half actually work.
I found a box full of wafer based 6V6GT's. The box was undamaged, and didn't look like it had been wet or subjected to any unusual stress. Over half of the tubes had lost their vacuum to the point that their getters had turned white. I tested each of the survivors in an amplifier and saved only the tubes that sounded good and showed no signs of grid current. These were placed back in the bulk pack box and placed on a shelf in my closet about 2 years ago. Several of the tubes have since lost their vacuum. This must be some sort of defect in manufacturing.
I found a box full of wafer based 6V6GT's. The box was undamaged, and didn't look like it had been wet or subjected to any unusual stress. Over half of the tubes had lost their vacuum to the point that their getters had turned white. I tested each of the survivors in an amplifier and saved only the tubes that sounded good and showed no signs of grid current. These were placed back in the bulk pack box and placed on a shelf in my closet about 2 years ago. Several of the tubes have since lost their vacuum. This must be some sort of defect in manufacturing.
More on the 6J6
I’ve also got a lot of 6J6s. With that shared cathode, they’d seem to be an ideal for diff amp (LTP) service.
I took a further look: The published curves suggest that this tube may not be the most linear choice. This is not surprising, as the tube was designed for RF service, even as a mixer. The regular plate curves are crowded in the lower right, a telltale sign of less-than-linear behavior. More telling are the curves in the attached characteristics chart. When the plate of a triode is loaded with RL>>rp, then mu becomes the domain characteristic (more than gm or rp). How much mu varies with voltage is a good first estimate of linearity. These curves are not always published, but here they are, by GE. If RL were replaced by a CCS or by a big choke, then you’d look vertically across the mu curves along a line of constant current. Ideally mu wouldn’t change. Compare these curves to a 6SN7 or to a 5687. For real world loads where RL is not so high, you can plot a load curve (not a “line” since it will bend). Just for kicks, I plotted in red a load curve that represents a load RL = 3rp = 21.3K, while the tube is operated at the data sheet settings of 100V and 8.5mA (arbitrarily). It would be a smooth curve but I only plotted a few way-points. With a large plate swing of 100v+/-50V (50 to 150 volts) mu varies considerably. (With this resistive load, gm and rp will become factors again, too.) This parameter variation would introduce significant even harmonic distortion. Operating at a higher plate voltage would help, but we quickly run into plate dissipation problems.
However, when the tube is used as a diff amp, much of this even harmonic distortion will be cancelled, although it is likely that there would still be more odd harmonic distortion than if we’d picked a more linear tube. The 6J6 might work fine as a low-level audio diff amp, but I would not recommend it for the larger voltage swings in phase-splitter service for a power amp.
I’ve also got a lot of 6J6s. With that shared cathode, they’d seem to be an ideal for diff amp (LTP) service.
I took a further look: The published curves suggest that this tube may not be the most linear choice. This is not surprising, as the tube was designed for RF service, even as a mixer. The regular plate curves are crowded in the lower right, a telltale sign of less-than-linear behavior. More telling are the curves in the attached characteristics chart. When the plate of a triode is loaded with RL>>rp, then mu becomes the domain characteristic (more than gm or rp). How much mu varies with voltage is a good first estimate of linearity. These curves are not always published, but here they are, by GE. If RL were replaced by a CCS or by a big choke, then you’d look vertically across the mu curves along a line of constant current. Ideally mu wouldn’t change. Compare these curves to a 6SN7 or to a 5687. For real world loads where RL is not so high, you can plot a load curve (not a “line” since it will bend). Just for kicks, I plotted in red a load curve that represents a load RL = 3rp = 21.3K, while the tube is operated at the data sheet settings of 100V and 8.5mA (arbitrarily). It would be a smooth curve but I only plotted a few way-points. With a large plate swing of 100v+/-50V (50 to 150 volts) mu varies considerably. (With this resistive load, gm and rp will become factors again, too.) This parameter variation would introduce significant even harmonic distortion. Operating at a higher plate voltage would help, but we quickly run into plate dissipation problems.
However, when the tube is used as a diff amp, much of this even harmonic distortion will be cancelled, although it is likely that there would still be more odd harmonic distortion than if we’d picked a more linear tube. The 6J6 might work fine as a low-level audio diff amp, but I would not recommend it for the larger voltage swings in phase-splitter service for a power amp.
Attachments
hey - I'm in Grand Rapids...!
Definitely worth checking out (if I had an extra 5k sitting around)
Definitely worth checking out (if I had an extra 5k sitting around)
Hi Brian. The tube is a 5964 in LTP, ~40k effective impedance per leg, CCS tail. Results in 150 VDC on each plate. The 6j6a RCA sheet shows mu to be almost dead linear at that voltage. At 5.5ma per side plate resistance is probably around 10-12k. It's being asked to drive an output stage (trioded 7591S p-p) biased at 18.5 VDC, not a huge swing.
The amp's output measures surprisingly well. Currently at one watt (~8 hard clipping) without feedback the dominant harmonic by far is 3rd at just under 0.1%, completely due to the 7591. 2nd is miles below that, 4th unmeasurable. So far quite promising.
The amp's output measures surprisingly well. Currently at one watt (~8 hard clipping) without feedback the dominant harmonic by far is 3rd at just under 0.1%, completely due to the 7591. 2nd is miles below that, 4th unmeasurable. So far quite promising.
rdf,
Well, the proof is “in the pudding” as they say, especially with more subtle effects like distortion. I had no way of knowing how much of the even distortion that the 6J6s would generate might be cancelled in a diff amp. For your application, the 5964 might work well enough. I hadn’t heard of the 5964, so I downloaded a Sylvania data sheet. While it is similar to the 6J6, which is an RF tube, this is a computer tube with slightly different specs. Sylvania provided no characteristic curves for the 5964, so I can’t tell how those might compare to what I posted for the 6J6 from GE. For computer service, sharp cut-off (implying linearity for us audio geeks) was an advantage, so these are often pretty good for audio use (to over-generalize). The 5964 could be more linear than the 6J6 then.
I also hadn’t seen the RCA data sheet for the 6J6 until you mentioned it, so I downloaded it too (thanks Frank!). It gives a different perspective on the characteristics. See attached picture. The mu curves at the top are not very promising, at least to my eyes. Note the mu scale (10 to 50). But, again, a lot of this distortion will cancel in diff amp service. My only question is how would a more fundamentally linear tube compare in similar service?
Well, the proof is “in the pudding” as they say, especially with more subtle effects like distortion. I had no way of knowing how much of the even distortion that the 6J6s would generate might be cancelled in a diff amp. For your application, the 5964 might work well enough. I hadn’t heard of the 5964, so I downloaded a Sylvania data sheet. While it is similar to the 6J6, which is an RF tube, this is a computer tube with slightly different specs. Sylvania provided no characteristic curves for the 5964, so I can’t tell how those might compare to what I posted for the 6J6 from GE. For computer service, sharp cut-off (implying linearity for us audio geeks) was an advantage, so these are often pretty good for audio use (to over-generalize). The 5964 could be more linear than the 6J6 then.
I also hadn’t seen the RCA data sheet for the 6J6 until you mentioned it, so I downloaded it too (thanks Frank!). It gives a different perspective on the characteristics. See attached picture. The mu curves at the top are not very promising, at least to my eyes. Note the mu scale (10 to 50). But, again, a lot of this distortion will cancel in diff amp service. My only question is how would a more fundamentally linear tube compare in similar service?
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