2-way with large bass driver

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alspe

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Joined 2007
#1
Hi.

I started a thread about "tuneful" bass in full range subforum.

I think I'll start another about idea of speaker like Consonance M12. http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/opera_m12.htm

If you know DIY projects were has been used large (PA) cone as bass driver please write links or your own thoughts to this thread.
Upper range can be performed by horn, full range etc.

I think there is good preconditions to nice bass responce where light and large cone is doing the job.😎 Cone must have clean responce up to 400-800 Hz. All above that can be done by full range, 4" Fostex etc. Or horn if there's diy project with horn.
 
#3
You can always do it the PA style - 15" bass driver in vented box and a beefy 2" compression driver on a big horn. X-over freq. as low as possible, around 800 Hz would be nice. But good 2" CD-s are expensive.

Then, for inspiration, there is this thing.

And if you´re not against 3-way with midrange covering most of the audio spectrum (eg 200...6000 Hz), then there is this (I'm using Eminence Alpha 6 to cover ~250...6000 Hz myself, so I'm a bit inclined 😀 Sounds very good, even with simple 1. order x-overs and 1€ piezo for HF).
 
#4
I think I can not consider OB because wall behind speakers is too close.

Is there so little 2-way projects around large (12"-15") cone and full range driver or horn mid range because here is few replys?

Do anyone know which bass driver have enough xmax for proper bass and at same time enough smooth lower midrange, say up to 600 Hz? Can lower midrange get "muddy" or slow, is large cone enough fast in transients?


-Ali
 
#5
In your other thread on the same subject I suggested a cheap 12" Gamma with a small Fostex fullrange
Also suggested the more expencive Supravox 400 series

you never responded to any of that or even have courtesy to tell us about starting a new thread on the same subject

But yes, to get both deep bass and good mids you need to choose such a big driver very carefully...either it wont do bass, or it will have troubled mids...or even both...not as easy as it sounds

You could also do a 12" SB Acoustic with a Jordan driver
 
#6
alspe said:

Is there so little 2-way projects around large (12"-15") cone and full range driver or horn mid range because here is few replys?

Do anyone know which bass driver have enough xmax for proper bass and at same time enough smooth lower midrange, say up to 600 Hz?
Click to expand...

Surprisingly, there's virtually no interest in them, though there's Bert Doppenberg's and Dick Olsher's highly acclaimed designs.

JBL 2245H, Altec 411-8A, though neither are still in production IIRC.

GM
 
#8
Going with the Lambda TD15M, you can get up to 4k, though it will get pretty beamy then. But for audiophile usage, direct toe-in, not much issue. Go for the apollo motor version, extremely low inductance. Much lower than anything you can find in the usual pro-audio line.

http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1641

http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1677

The idea is to cut it out at maybe 80Hz and hand it over to a subwoofer, to lower excursion. A subwoofer handles bass more efficiently.

Driver choices for HF becomes pretty easy then...
 
#9
Hi alspe,

Here is a two-way design that was intended to be used close to the wall.

http://www.pispeakers.com/catalog/default.php/cPath/1?osCsid=d5rph7877f3eahlqmamcd368g6

You can get the plans on their forum by asking.

If you want to purchase these speakers from the designer.
They are offered in a few different configurations. You can choose different drivers, either in completed form, or as parts only kits.
The Four Pi Pro as being the best of this speaker design IMHO.

Good luck in your search.

NW
 
#10
tinitus said:
In your other thread on the same subject I suggested a cheap 12" Gamma with a small Fostex fullrange
Also suggested the more expencive Supravox 400 series

you never responded to any of that or even have courtesy to tell us about starting a new thread on the same subject

But yes, to get both deep bass and good mids you need to choose such a big driver very carefully...either it wont do bass, or it will have troubled mids...or even both...not as easy as it sounds

You could also do a 12" SB Acoustic with a Jordan driver
Click to expand...

Hi.

That went past my eyes.

Interesting idea but here I look desing were all main bass region is carried by one driver, so that XO is not in area 100-400 Hz. XO components are smaller and cheaper with higher XO and good thing is full range don't have to move in hint.

Problem is that light, big cone demands big enclosure. Speaker must be reasonable sized.

Horn midrange is more interesting to me because it focuses sound more that full range in baffle. Of course it is much more harder design and there's not much DIY projects.

-Ali
 
#11
How big is too big? Some 15" can be use in smaller than 100 L enclosure, one of them is Eminence Gamma 15. Of coure, that way it won't go very deep - F3 around 60 Hz.

Eminence Beta 12 can be put into ~60 L cab and goes to around 60 Hz too. But not as loud as Gamma.

For midrange there are 2 options:

1. 2" comp. driver on a big horn. X-over can be around 800 Hz. Can get very expensive - around 300€ for driver only, add another 100€ for horn.

2. 6" paper cone on a simple ~30 cm long conical horn w/ 1000...1200 cmˇ2 mouth + 1" horn tweeter. X-over at roughly 400 and 3000 Hz. Can be cheaper - Eminence Alpha 6 + tweeter for ~100€.
 
#13
alspe said:

Problem is that light, big cone demands big enclosure. Speaker must be reasonable sized.
Click to expand...

Ignoring the 'light cone' part which isn't a criteria, it's the price you pay for tuneful bass at low listening levels, so how much as you willing to trade for a smaller cab?

GM
 
#14
Well, should I do a high quality 2way with big woofer I would strongly consider the AE TD15M...but you need to import it from US
Still the cheaper 12" GAMMA seem to have more bass, even in closed... -3db at 40hz in closed box is pretty darned good at 94db SPL... if specs are true
Want the mid directivity of horns ?...well, you could make a waveguide fore a small fullrange

http://www.aespeakers.com/drivers.php?driver_id=4
 

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#15
Why not audition some speakers at a store that deals in PA speakers. Maybe rent a pair overnight so you can hear them at home with your own gear. That could give you some idea what to expect, and how big a problem limited bass might be. There isn't all that much stuff below 60 Hz, really.
 
#16
the cheaper 12" GAMMA seem to have more bass, even in closed... -3db at 40hz in closed box is pretty darned good at 94db SPL... if specs are true
Click to expand...

I agree about Gamma LA 1231, have used them in various boxes.
It's possible to run them pretty high without any major breakups.
Also can stand some abuse as I used them for garden parties in my youth.

Peter
 
#17
#18
peterbrorsson said:


I agree about Gamma LA 1231, have used them in various boxes.
It's possible to run them pretty high without any major breakups.
Also can stand some abuse as I used them for garden parties in my youth.

Peter
Click to expand...


Landroval said:


AE is opening EU distribution, so Lambdas should become better available to us too

One option for the bass-mid is Hi-Vi M12:
Click to expand...


Thanks Peter, thats very good to know

EU distribition of AE drivers...dont get your hopes up too high, according John/AE

Hivi M12 is no doubt a fine woofer, but not sure I would use such driver up in the midrange
 
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