Hi all
I have a pair of SB MW19P-4 and SB TW29R-4 sitting on a shelf doing nothing which is starting to annoy me. Though I managed to get them just under half price, unused via auction, they are a pretty expensive driver for me personally to justify not using. They were meant for an active 3 way that never got off the ground. With that in mind I have decided to build a passive 2 way with them, something similar to Troels MW19P-8.
I fancy a large stand mount with a port tuning as low as feasibly possible (volume maybe 28 litres, larger floorstander if needed). I really want to use these drivers, so I am not willing to move to different drivers etc, other than that one point I am pretty flexible. I am open to correction but am pretty sure that the volume of the enclosure will directly effect sensitivty of the mid driver output and will need to be pinned down before looking into a crossover, in order to match the tweeter level.
Some googling has been done, I can't find any crossover designs for these drivers. It looks like I will need to come up with some form of design myself, I have no experience but am not afraid of maths so bring it on. I noticed this sticky: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...igning-crossovers-without-measurement.189847/ which seems to have all the information I need, I plan to use it to design the crossover.
Overall, I want to get these driving producing music for me and have a fun build, I don't expect to have a 100% optimal crossover design. Troels crosses his speaker at 1.7khz using an LR4, from my understanding this is far more complicated and expensive than crossing at a higher frequency (which I understand may be suboptimal in comparison). Many seem to cross these Satori's around 1.8khz - 2.2khz for various applications.
So that is where I am, if anyone can answer either of my two questions that'd be great 🙂
Questions:
* Does anybody know of a crossover design from a previous project on any forums etc that would suit the drivers I am using?
* I don't expect the speaker to perform like a subwoofer but would like to get as much low end as possible. I am not restricted on volume so a 60 litre floorstander is not out of the question. I would like opinions on how much volume and how low I can design F3 before compromising the quality and consistency of the upper frequency output of the mid driver?
Thanks all
I have a pair of SB MW19P-4 and SB TW29R-4 sitting on a shelf doing nothing which is starting to annoy me. Though I managed to get them just under half price, unused via auction, they are a pretty expensive driver for me personally to justify not using. They were meant for an active 3 way that never got off the ground. With that in mind I have decided to build a passive 2 way with them, something similar to Troels MW19P-8.
I fancy a large stand mount with a port tuning as low as feasibly possible (volume maybe 28 litres, larger floorstander if needed). I really want to use these drivers, so I am not willing to move to different drivers etc, other than that one point I am pretty flexible. I am open to correction but am pretty sure that the volume of the enclosure will directly effect sensitivty of the mid driver output and will need to be pinned down before looking into a crossover, in order to match the tweeter level.
Some googling has been done, I can't find any crossover designs for these drivers. It looks like I will need to come up with some form of design myself, I have no experience but am not afraid of maths so bring it on. I noticed this sticky: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...igning-crossovers-without-measurement.189847/ which seems to have all the information I need, I plan to use it to design the crossover.
Overall, I want to get these driving producing music for me and have a fun build, I don't expect to have a 100% optimal crossover design. Troels crosses his speaker at 1.7khz using an LR4, from my understanding this is far more complicated and expensive than crossing at a higher frequency (which I understand may be suboptimal in comparison). Many seem to cross these Satori's around 1.8khz - 2.2khz for various applications.
So that is where I am, if anyone can answer either of my two questions that'd be great 🙂
Questions:
* Does anybody know of a crossover design from a previous project on any forums etc that would suit the drivers I am using?
* I don't expect the speaker to perform like a subwoofer but would like to get as much low end as possible. I am not restricted on volume so a 60 litre floorstander is not out of the question. I would like opinions on how much volume and how low I can design F3 before compromising the quality and consistency of the upper frequency output of the mid driver?
Thanks all
Hi RedMan
I did a similar design but with a SB29RDC-C000-4 for my center speaker.
I used a WG300 waveguide, and put it in a 22,5 l box tuned at 31 Hz.
You can see the filter used in the attached file.
Clarity is superb, and therefore I like it for my center setup.
Bass leaves much to be desired .... there is too little to my taste.
I'm sure you would have a better result in tuning it to say 40-45 Hz, or by correcting by DSP. I didn't try as it is only used from 80 Hz and up in my setup.
Also the filter could/should have a shelving section to raise the bass level (baffle step correction) .... I'm sure this would really help as well
I'd say that the MW19 is more a large mid range than it is a real woofer!
If you are going to have these as your main speakers, you should go for a sub or a 3 way with a good 8 inch or larger.
I think the waveguide worked really well, and can be recommended.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/2-way-to-serve-as-center.285373/
But don´t get me wrong here .... these are world class drivers 😉
Just my 2 cent
I did a similar design but with a SB29RDC-C000-4 for my center speaker.
I used a WG300 waveguide, and put it in a 22,5 l box tuned at 31 Hz.
You can see the filter used in the attached file.
Clarity is superb, and therefore I like it for my center setup.
Bass leaves much to be desired .... there is too little to my taste.
I'm sure you would have a better result in tuning it to say 40-45 Hz, or by correcting by DSP. I didn't try as it is only used from 80 Hz and up in my setup.
Also the filter could/should have a shelving section to raise the bass level (baffle step correction) .... I'm sure this would really help as well
I'd say that the MW19 is more a large mid range than it is a real woofer!
If you are going to have these as your main speakers, you should go for a sub or a 3 way with a good 8 inch or larger.
I think the waveguide worked really well, and can be recommended.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/2-way-to-serve-as-center.285373/
But don´t get me wrong here .... these are world class drivers 😉
Just my 2 cent
Hi Baldin
Thanks for giving your thoughts and the PDF. Your sound room looks fantastic as do the speakers. Mine will not be my main speakers so it is fine if the bass is not as solid as it could be, also the room they are going into isnt the largest. Your crossover looks like alot of components, its good to have a reference example.
I have a DDRC Minidsp but it is for use elsewhere so I had planned these speakers to be as straightforward as possibl.
You have given me loads to think about. Does the waveguide affect the sound signature or are you using it mainly to increase efficiency?
Thanks for giving your thoughts and the PDF. Your sound room looks fantastic as do the speakers. Mine will not be my main speakers so it is fine if the bass is not as solid as it could be, also the room they are going into isnt the largest. Your crossover looks like alot of components, its good to have a reference example.
I have a DDRC Minidsp but it is for use elsewhere so I had planned these speakers to be as straightforward as possibl.
You have given me loads to think about. Does the waveguide affect the sound signature or are you using it mainly to increase efficiency?
Thanks RedMan 😉
When looking at the Xover drawing, please be aware that most of the components are omitted, only those showing a value is used (so 9 components) 😉
Waveguide is there to secure constant directivity and matching the woofers directivity around the Xover point
I'm working on an active DSP solution with an amp for each of the 2 units, which is why I newer went back and did more to the filter. On the other hand it works really well and sounds great on movies
And if you are going to use the speakers in a smaller setup try a tuning around 40 Hz. I'm sure this will work better .... but it's newer going to be a sub bass 😉
When looking at the Xover drawing, please be aware that most of the components are omitted, only those showing a value is used (so 9 components) 😉
Waveguide is there to secure constant directivity and matching the woofers directivity around the Xover point
I'm working on an active DSP solution with an amp for each of the 2 units, which is why I newer went back and did more to the filter. On the other hand it works really well and sounds great on movies
And if you are going to use the speakers in a smaller setup try a tuning around 40 Hz. I'm sure this will work better .... but it's newer going to be a sub bass 😉
Thanks for pointing that out on the crossove schematic. I always thought that 4th order crossovers meant HEAPS of components being used. Good to know I am wrong.
DSP sounds perfect, best of luck with it.
Will update when I make a start for any comment on what I come up with.
DSP sounds perfect, best of luck with it.
Will update when I make a start for any comment on what I come up with.
I had the MW19P-4 in 28L - I found that was tuning it too low and the woofer would bottom out often, even though it was getting satisfying low end. I would use 20L next time. I crossed to a SB26ADC-4 in augerpro waveguide 6.5" - it was quite nice, but if I did it again I would probably use the 8inch waveguide. I had passive crossover but didnt make it past prototype stage, moved onto larger projects. MW19P-4 in 20L tuned to 44hz crossed to your tweeter at 1700hz LR4 would probably be pretty nice, just might need a sub ymmv
It's easy to try tuning a vented box on a simulator and go too far. The default size and tuning (sticking to known alignments) can end up sounding better than if you stretch it. Of course you could equalise.
Thanks for the additional thoughts on my soon to be project. By the sounds of it I would be better off to go with a smaller enclosure and a higher tune. With room gain I suspect it will suffice for what I need. I came across this thread earlier and the crossover design on post #10.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/best-1000-bookshelf.356662/
It looks to have been simulated on Jeff Bagby's crossover software, I have no idea who came up with it or what project it is from as I can't find the original source. Any thoughts appreciated as to whether this crossover might be suitable.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/best-1000-bookshelf.356662/
It looks to have been simulated on Jeff Bagby's crossover software, I have no idea who came up with it or what project it is from as I can't find the original source. Any thoughts appreciated as to whether this crossover might be suitable.
