other than the possibility of dips from throat size, might this Faital 3" also make a viable candidate with existing 2" format horns? (a cheap round waveguide could be easily cut to accommodate 2" or 3")
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-1104-faitalpro-3fe25-8-specifications.pdf
it would be interesting to compare the distortion of a small speaker on a horn vs baffle vs conventional compression driver and see if the small speaker can be annulled/matched with a back chamber
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-1104-faitalpro-3fe25-8-specifications.pdf
it would be interesting to compare the distortion of a small speaker on a horn vs baffle vs conventional compression driver and see if the small speaker can be annulled/matched with a back chamber
Some details and rough RTA measurements of the unholy union.
Driver:
2" Tangband W2-803SM full-range.
Horn:
JBL 2386.
Circuit:
Serial connected (R) 2 x 4,7Ohm in parallel with (C) 8,2uF.
Amp:
LAB IP450
XO:
DBX 223 XL
Source:
Audacity on Linux (generating pink noise)
RTA:
Phonic PAA2 measuring non weighted.
Distance:
1 Meter
The measurement setup :
The driver and circuit complement :
Measurement with HP set at 45Hz 24dB/Oct 1M:
Measurement with HP set at 250Hz 24dB/Oct 1M:
Measurement with HP set at 350Hz 24dB/Oct 1M (prefered):
It sounds a lot better then the graphs would have you believe, and the SPL capacity is greater the the drivers would have you believe.
Driver:
2" Tangband W2-803SM full-range.
Horn:
JBL 2386.
Circuit:
Serial connected (R) 2 x 4,7Ohm in parallel with (C) 8,2uF.
Amp:
LAB IP450
XO:
DBX 223 XL
Source:
Audacity on Linux (generating pink noise)
RTA:
Phonic PAA2 measuring non weighted.
Distance:
1 Meter
The measurement setup :
The driver and circuit complement :
Measurement with HP set at 45Hz 24dB/Oct 1M:
Measurement with HP set at 250Hz 24dB/Oct 1M:
Measurement with HP set at 350Hz 24dB/Oct 1M (prefered):
It sounds a lot better then the graphs would have you believe, and the SPL capacity is greater the the drivers would have you believe.
A rough approximation of the response based on the graphs above :
The horisontal lines on the PAA2 RTA is spaced 10dB apart, 240Hz XO setting is used in the example.
The horisontal lines on the PAA2 RTA is spaced 10dB apart, 240Hz XO setting is used in the example.
Hi!
Nice project! It looks so that your horn also broke the "3-octave horn bandwidth rule"....😀 (like the ORIS or Avantgarde horns)
Many people says that it would be not possible....
I also would like to try something similar with 3" drivers in the ca. 200-16000Hz region.
Greets:
Tyimo
Nice project! It looks so that your horn also broke the "3-octave horn bandwidth rule"....😀 (like the ORIS or Avantgarde horns)
Many people says that it would be not possible....
I also would like to try something similar with 3" drivers in the ca. 200-16000Hz region.
Greets:
Tyimo
I believe as soon as you add significant compression ratio (say 2:1 or greater) the 3 octave rule will come into play, no?
This horn/driver combo has a very low compression ratio, low enough one might just consider it a waveguide? Without the need for a phase plug to compensate for HF loss in a compression chamber it operates wide open on the top end and breaks that 'rule'.
This horn/driver combo has a very low compression ratio, low enough one might just consider it a waveguide? Without the need for a phase plug to compensate for HF loss in a compression chamber it operates wide open on the top end and breaks that 'rule'.
Many people would not even bother listening to this system if described to them 🙂 and why would they, honestly, there is nothing about this combination that makes sense, let's recap the events that lead up to this shall we?
1. A cheap 2" TB fullrange with a neo magnet the size of an thimble somehow got mounted on one of the most evil 2" horns ever created, worlds apart in design goals as well as intented usages, one being arena distance HF projection, the other a tv casing driver, how could that ever work? it is boderline insulting the the respective design teams at JBL and TB to even contemplate doing something like this.
2. But that's not all, to come up with the idea in the first place you would have to not only have in your possesion these two extremly different devices (a clear sign of strangeness) but then also have the type of mind to say "hang on..." and put them togheter (a sign of a slitghtly devienat mental disorder) but that's not enough, no, you then have to go even further and design a small compensating circuit for it (a sign of severe and most likley diagnosable audiophile disorder) 🙂
But nothing top's the final and definite sign of "severe auidophile something something mental somtehing maina", and that is posting your findings on a internationally well regarded forum, not easy wearing a straight jacket, niether was mounting the drivers 🙂
Kidding aside, it was a fun thing to try, and it panned out pretty well, but I'm sure it could be done alot better but one thing is for sure, hornloading is now a part of my future, it does do wonders for the sound.
So it's like a zobel? cap then resistor across the leads? or a cap from the + to- and a resistor from the + to the -? the reason I ask is because I might try it. 🙂
This is the "eq" circuit used to compensate for the raw driver + horn combination, and it makes all the difference in the world for the end result :
I have updated my crazy top system, there is a new 2" full range driver, the Tangband W2-803SE, and some new higher grade components for the filter, 10uF capacitor over a 10 Ohm resistor, simple enough.
This is what it looks like:
The measurement setup, in the middle of the room, 1m above the floor and at 1m distance :
Raw measurement, no active processing:
1st parametric equalizer:
1:st parametric equalizer result:
2:nd parametric equalizer:
Active high pass filtering:
Final result (all of the above):
Impressive result considering the components are worlds apart and the really simple passive circuit, it actually sound rather good even before the active processing, but since i have the tools, why not use them right 🙂
This is what it looks like:
The measurement setup, in the middle of the room, 1m above the floor and at 1m distance :
Raw measurement, no active processing:
1st parametric equalizer:
1:st parametric equalizer result:
2:nd parametric equalizer:
Active high pass filtering:
Final result (all of the above):
Impressive result considering the components are worlds apart and the really simple passive circuit, it actually sound rather good even before the active processing, but since i have the tools, why not use them right 🙂
Interesting ! 🙂
That horn has quite narrow beamwidth. Do you think it is not too narrow for a living room ?
Have you tried other horns ?
That horn has quite narrow beamwidth. Do you think it is not too narrow for a living room ?
Have you tried other horns ?
So far I've only tried this one and the B&CME60, and the JBL2386 provided the widest response 300-16k and also the most even repsonse without compensating circuits, it is somewhat suprising given that these components where never supposed to meet eachother.
There is another large format 2" horn from BMS that I have looked at for this type of application, the 2236, although I have never tested it, or even simulated it, but it seems to be able to provide a wide band boost given it's dimensions, having a similar lower end corner as the JBL 2386 I use.
http://www.bmsspeakers.com/fileadmin/bms-data/product_data/horns/bms_2236_t.data.pdf
There is another large format 2" horn from BMS that I have looked at for this type of application, the 2236, although I have never tested it, or even simulated it, but it seems to be able to provide a wide band boost given it's dimensions, having a similar lower end corner as the JBL 2386 I use.
http://www.bmsspeakers.com/fileadmin/bms-data/product_data/horns/bms_2236_t.data.pdf
How about these horns ?
RCF H6040
lautsprechershop.de/pdf/rcf/h6040.pdf
Nominal coverage angle (HxV) -6 dB 60°x40°
Cut-off Frequency 400
Throat Diameter 50 (2”)
Ciare PR401
CIARE ITALIAN SPEAKERS - PRO AUDIO B2B: PR 401 HORN 2 INCHES
Throat Diameter 2 in - 50 mm
Minimum Crossover Frequency (1) 400 Hz
Frequency Range 0.35 ÷ 20 kHz
Material ABS + fiber glass
Horizontal Coverage Angle (2) 100 degree
Vertical Coverage Angle (2) 60 degree
.
RCF H6040
lautsprechershop.de/pdf/rcf/h6040.pdf
Nominal coverage angle (HxV) -6 dB 60°x40°
Cut-off Frequency 400
Throat Diameter 50 (2”)
Ciare PR401
CIARE ITALIAN SPEAKERS - PRO AUDIO B2B: PR 401 HORN 2 INCHES
Throat Diameter 2 in - 50 mm
Minimum Crossover Frequency (1) 400 Hz
Frequency Range 0.35 ÷ 20 kHz
Material ABS + fiber glass
Horizontal Coverage Angle (2) 100 degree
Vertical Coverage Angle (2) 60 degree
.
Very cool!
I also really like your apartment, and 100% approve of your operating system choice. 😀
I also really like your apartment, and 100% approve of your operating system choice. 😀
1.5" microlabs aren't listenable. Had try one in january and turn off immediatly
.Today I mounted 3fe22 in 2380 (2", w\o mod).
Simple 5 mm thick plastic rings are used to connect driver to horn. Two old sweaters are back chambers.
CD horn FR roughly equalized and crossed with 15" at 500 Hz.
For €14\driver definetly not bad - articulated sound, without rising distortions at 500-1000 hz, HF falls after 15k.
Measurements will be later.
1.5" microlabs aren't listenable. Had try one in january and turn off immediatly
Today I mounted 3fe22 in 2380 (2", w\o mod).
Simple 5 mm thick plastic rings are used to connect driver to horn. Two old sweaters are back chambers.
CD horn FR roughly equalized and crossed with 15" at 500 Hz.
For €14\driver definetly not bad - articulated sound, without rising distortions at 500-1000 hz, HF falls after 15k.
Measurements will be later.
I use 3FE22's in a tractrix and they sound great. Works up to 18kHz. Grey curve is no EQ.
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