I built a Celestion W-Bin cabinet from a set of plans I found on the internet. I brought the cabinet to the store so I could finish it up while I'm waiting on the re-cone kit for the JBL 2206H driver I' plan on installing in it. I wasn't planning on selling the cabinet I just wanted to work on it during Idle time in the store. A customer came in and wanted to buy it. After he found out I built it he wants me to build an old Cerwin Vega speaker he had "Back in the day". We possibly found the plans on line but he kept going on and on about the way CV joined their miters in a "layered" or stair stepped joint. No problem I'll just make a step on the miters for him. Nope that's not how they were done. Back in the day. The way he was explaining it the panels would have to be multiple layers of plywood about 2 inches thick. I could not find any examples on the internet. Does anyone know what this guy may be talking about.
Jim
Jim
No, but make sure you charge accordingly. Fancy custom work costs $$$ especially if he is being picky.
Hi,
"stair stepped joint" is pretty obvious compared to a plane
mitre. The difficulty is finding the two router bits to do it.
rgds, sreten.
"stair stepped joint" is pretty obvious compared to a plane
mitre. The difficulty is finding the two router bits to do it.
rgds, sreten.
i guess cerwin vega used 2 layers or more of thinner plywood, cut up so the joints overlap each other. a very simple design. i really dont know why your customer think this is superior to other kinds of joints. but as a wood worker, i just say, if the client wants it, build it and charge accordingly.
i guess you have figured out the process, since its just a matter of making panels for a series of boxes that would fit inside each other. simplified even more you can see it as making one box, and cover it with panels as many times as your client wants.
as sreten stated and the OP too, its literally the same as a stair stepped joint.
i guess you have figured out the process, since its just a matter of making panels for a series of boxes that would fit inside each other. simplified even more you can see it as making one box, and cover it with panels as many times as your client wants.
as sreten stated and the OP too, its literally the same as a stair stepped joint.
Is a stair stepped joint the same as a double rabbet, or it is the same thing just done with multiple layers of wood?
https://www.google.ca/search?q=doub...qHXbNr5yM:&usg=__1pFiDFlmQjDiLszGQL9hN2J6ZjE=
https://www.google.ca/search?q=doub...qHXbNr5yM:&usg=__1pFiDFlmQjDiLszGQL9hN2J6ZjE=
Thanks for the replies. I'm thinking a jig to hold the panels in the right plane to add the double rabbits or some other router/stair stepped edge may be in order. And searching for a bit to cut such a joint has not been very productive. Plenty to cut something close but not what I wanted. There was some article on a guy that made a system to make drawers with one longer piece of wood. He used a dado blade he designed in his table saw to make the cut but I cant find anything on it now. It was in one of those "fund me" type websites. Laminating big panels for the layered miter would be asking for some serious delaminating issues in the future since I don't have the right vacuum system to properly laminate something like that. My thoughts are that if he believes a layered laminated joint is superior, then a joint cut on the edge of some plywood would be the same thing. I have not looked for a dado blade with a suitable edge. Sears made something like that at one time.
Lock Miter
Perhaps the customer is thinking of a Lock miter joint. 45° Lock Miter Router Bits | Rockler Woodworking & Hardware
Perhaps the customer is thinking of a Lock miter joint. 45° Lock Miter Router Bits | Rockler Woodworking & Hardware
Why not a rabbet, or even a double rabbet and a cleat? It's overkill but the customer is always right. Sure a lot better than trying to laminate panels. You can do it all with a couple clamps, a finish nailer and all blind fasteners.
No where could I find reference to 2" or even 1 1/2" thick CV cabinets. Sometimes things get thicker as you get older. TBH, I can't ever remember catching a small fish when I was a kid, they were all huge. 🙂
No where could I find reference to 2" or even 1 1/2" thick CV cabinets. Sometimes things get thicker as you get older. TBH, I can't ever remember catching a small fish when I was a kid, they were all huge. 🙂
unfortunately, those increases in girth are not necessarily where they'll provide the most benefit - ask any mother of twins
I have it on good authority that the increase in density of my cranium is offset by the reduction its contents
I saw the locking router bits. I didn't do too much research on them and in the limited time I spent on them I didn't see any made for 3/4 inch (.70) wood. I'm sure they are out there though. I'm going to get with ol' Jerry and give him his options and see which way he wants to go. Thanks for the help guys.
Jim
Jim
Lock miter router bits are certainly available for 3/4" material, but they can get expensive, and require a fairly substantial router to drive them , You'd get even better results with a shaper and power feeder, but that's a little beyond the average DIY cabinet hacker.
Set up for a perfect joint is a bit tricky, and it would take a certain amount of skill to free-hand them. Whether the trouble is worth it with MDF for even plywood for a speaker enclosure is another story altogether. A simple tongue and groove
assisted with internal cleats as Cal already suggested should be more than adequate
Set up for a perfect joint is a bit tricky, and it would take a certain amount of skill to free-hand them. Whether the trouble is worth it with MDF for even plywood for a speaker enclosure is another story altogether. A simple tongue and groove
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assisted with internal cleats as Cal already suggested should be more than adequate
Thanks for the pic of the tongue and groove joints. If I were working with 90deg joints I could cut those out with my CNC router to take out any human error, and I certainly can induce that for sure. I'll be working with a lot of different angles inside on the pieces that form the folded horn. Even though I'll have to build a jig for each angle I'm thinking that one of the 5 routers I have might be able to handle the locking miter bits. The problem will be with the accuracy of my jigs. The whole problem stems from this customers fascination with the overlapping ply's. Not on the joints of the external box, but on all the internal joints.
Jim
Jim
scarf joints for the internal angle joints? - gives you a wide range of options for angles, and provides far more glue surface area than a simple bevel joint
I use one on the internal panel joint of a small BLH horn. Parts are narrow enough to fit on a standard table saw tenoning jig - with the blade set at angle (5dg in this case), it's a breeze to accurately cut several pieces in a few minutes
I use one on the internal panel joint of a small BLH horn. Parts are narrow enough to fit on a standard table saw tenoning jig - with the blade set at angle (5dg in this case), it's a breeze to accurately cut several pieces in a few minutes
The Scarf joints I have used were at 11 dg but I'm not following you on how to use this. I use a scarf joint on my guitar necks. Cut it, flip it, glue it. Instant headstock on a neck. How would this work. Sounds interesting. I'll look for more example of scarf joints being used. Thanks
A hooked Scarf joint may work for "Jerry". If I can figure out how to shape it. The angles of the W-Bin mentioned in the first post of the thread had two angles at each miter/scarf. 45 to 19. 45 to 45, 19 to 19. Of course I could have just as easily made them some other angle. this seemed to be easier because there are only two changes in the blade I don't exactly know what angles I will be looking at when he figures out for sure what he wants. I'm betting its some version of the EV 18. This hooked scarf joint may appease the "Back in the Day" needs for him.
check out a lock mitre bit pricey, I have one that works great up to 9/16 inch ply, for 3/4 I have to cut a 45 on the 1st 1/4 inch of the joint.
The link GOR3 sent is a very good price too. Now I need to find a bigger router.
It takes some time to get that bit set up properly so once it is there, keep 2 pieces of wood for templates. (Then they will shave another 16th off the ply sizes)
The link GOR3 sent is a very good price too. Now I need to find a bigger router.
It takes some time to get that bit set up properly so once it is there, keep 2 pieces of wood for templates. (Then they will shave another 16th off the ply sizes)
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Thanks for the input Jsixis. I have been trying to talk myself out of the bit for a week now. Looks like I wont be listening to myself again. LOL
when you get the lock mitre set up properly you can make a box that stays together without glue or nails. Naturally I glue the joints.
It does take some thinking as one side of the cut the board has to be laying flat and the other board the cut must be made while the board is vertical.
I bought another $100 router table set up just for that bit as getting it perfect is 99% of the battle.
Then again, instructions and my brain are not very compatible.
I think you wanna be sure this is something you'll be using a lot or can factor into a bespoke build, as it can cost well over several hundred bucks by the time to include the router, bit and table for a dedicated - as in permanent - set up.
At the commercial shop in which I work, we'll use a simple 45dg and Festool domino joint edge instead - even with Pro-core etc type combination core plywood, the center tongue can be a bit fragile, and if there's the slightest amount of cupping, closing a long joint can be a bit of a wrestling match.
At the commercial shop in which I work, we'll use a simple 45dg and Festool domino joint edge instead - even with Pro-core etc type combination core plywood, the center tongue can be a bit fragile, and if there's the slightest amount of cupping, closing a long joint can be a bit of a wrestling match.
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