Hi All,
Hope you're all keeping well!? It feels like an eternity since I made some speakers (a year, in fact) so it's time to upgrade my system.
I'd like to try a 10" mid-bass and CD/horn as a step up from my current 8" mid-bass and CD/horn. I could potentially go to a 12" but I would have to be careful with WAF.
Crossover frequency should be around 1000hz-1300hz
So far my plan is a little rough but I have been looking at the following drivers:
Mid-bass:
Faital Pro 10PR320
B&C 10HPL64
B&C 10NDL64
18Sound 10W500
Precision Devices PD.123C001
Rough sims attached. All tuned to around 55hz with 23-30L vented cabinets.
Compression drivers:
Faital Pro HF108 (super flat response and low xover)
Faital Pro HF108R (ihigher FS than the above that means I won't be able to crossover as low?)
Faital Pro HF10AK (reports suggest this doesn't cross as low and impedance graph doesn't look as good)
RCF ND350
Horns
- RCF H100 (constant directivity and loading to 800hz)
Caveats And justifications:
- Budget is around £100-£200 per mid bass driver and up to £150 per compression driver.
- I would like to try a constant directivity horn and I would like to keep it a 2-way
- This will be a bi-amped DSP system
- The tuning of the mid-bass doesn't seem very low but my current cabinets are tuned to 75hz and because I am against a wall and so speakers are against the opposite wall I get good low frequency boundary reinforcement and the system -3db is around 40hz. With a lower tuning I expect to room to give me more low end extension (I have simmed in REW)
- I would like to use the EBS alignment as the aforementioned boundary reinforcement means I can adjust the bass-to-mid balance as the room dictates
- If I can support UK driver manufacturers then great, I'd rather not import drivers unless from a domestic supplier because of import taxes
Questions:
- Drivers. What would you suggest? Totally open to suggestions.
- With the EBS aliignment one obviously loses sensitivity (which isn't an issue) but does attentuating the upper response to match the lower have any detrimental conqsequences? IMD?
- Why do people investigate making 10" 2-ways and seemingly never build them? Is there an inherent flaw?
Attached is mid bass sims and a pic of my current setup where the subs have been switched off for the last 9 months.
Any suggestions welcome 🙂
Hope you're all keeping well!? It feels like an eternity since I made some speakers (a year, in fact) so it's time to upgrade my system.
I'd like to try a 10" mid-bass and CD/horn as a step up from my current 8" mid-bass and CD/horn. I could potentially go to a 12" but I would have to be careful with WAF.
Crossover frequency should be around 1000hz-1300hz
So far my plan is a little rough but I have been looking at the following drivers:
Mid-bass:
Faital Pro 10PR320
B&C 10HPL64
B&C 10NDL64
18Sound 10W500
Precision Devices PD.123C001
Rough sims attached. All tuned to around 55hz with 23-30L vented cabinets.
Compression drivers:
Faital Pro HF108 (super flat response and low xover)
Faital Pro HF108R (ihigher FS than the above that means I won't be able to crossover as low?)
Faital Pro HF10AK (reports suggest this doesn't cross as low and impedance graph doesn't look as good)
RCF ND350
Horns
- RCF H100 (constant directivity and loading to 800hz)
Caveats And justifications:
- Budget is around £100-£200 per mid bass driver and up to £150 per compression driver.
- I would like to try a constant directivity horn and I would like to keep it a 2-way
- This will be a bi-amped DSP system
- The tuning of the mid-bass doesn't seem very low but my current cabinets are tuned to 75hz and because I am against a wall and so speakers are against the opposite wall I get good low frequency boundary reinforcement and the system -3db is around 40hz. With a lower tuning I expect to room to give me more low end extension (I have simmed in REW)
- I would like to use the EBS alignment as the aforementioned boundary reinforcement means I can adjust the bass-to-mid balance as the room dictates
- If I can support UK driver manufacturers then great, I'd rather not import drivers unless from a domestic supplier because of import taxes
Questions:
- Drivers. What would you suggest? Totally open to suggestions.
- With the EBS aliignment one obviously loses sensitivity (which isn't an issue) but does attentuating the upper response to match the lower have any detrimental conqsequences? IMD?
- Why do people investigate making 10" 2-ways and seemingly never build them? Is there an inherent flaw?
Attached is mid bass sims and a pic of my current setup where the subs have been switched off for the last 9 months.
Any suggestions welcome 🙂
Attachments
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Try to pair this one with 10" midbass.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/338806-acoustic-horn-design-easy-ath4-751.html#post6737942
If it fails to open it correctly, it is post no #7506
And i'd add Eminence Deltalite II 2510 to your list.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/338806-acoustic-horn-design-easy-ath4-751.html#post6737942
If it fails to open it correctly, it is post no #7506
And i'd add Eminence Deltalite II 2510 to your list.
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Hi Graham,
I really like my Beyma CP380M drivers, I was looking at trying them with Fane Sovereign Pro 10-300 drivers for a compact 2 way for home cinema..
Looking at home grown stuff maybe a browse through the Celestion range could turn up something ?
One thing I've noticed is that in a home environment pro drivers are hardly moving, so I'm wary of paying out for large power / high xmax drivers when they will never get close to their limits.
Cheers,
Rob.
I really like my Beyma CP380M drivers, I was looking at trying them with Fane Sovereign Pro 10-300 drivers for a compact 2 way for home cinema..
Looking at home grown stuff maybe a browse through the Celestion range could turn up something ?
One thing I've noticed is that in a home environment pro drivers are hardly moving, so I'm wary of paying out for large power / high xmax drivers when they will never get close to their limits.
Cheers,
Rob.
Hi Graham,
If you match a new woofers' EBP number ( as well as the TS parameters ) to the numbers of your existing woofer, that should help thin the herd.
EBP; don't go much higher than a fraction of an octave or you'll sacrifice bass response.
EBP; going for a lower number will offer more bass extension, but at the expense of sensitivity.
Remind us please, what's the 8" that's in current use ?
🙂
If you match a new woofers' EBP number ( as well as the TS parameters ) to the numbers of your existing woofer, that should help thin the herd.
EBP; don't go much higher than a fraction of an octave or you'll sacrifice bass response.
EBP; going for a lower number will offer more bass extension, but at the expense of sensitivity.
Remind us please, what's the 8" that's in current use ?
🙂
8" x 7" x 5" deep
I'd cross it at 1,500.
5" deep, i dont think think it would disperse even 70 degrees at 10khz........
Found their documentation, definitely tighter at 8khz than 4khz, should add a bit of boost at the cost of dispersion, but i like the rounded off path in 2 of the dimensions, wish it did it in all 4.
Product Detail - RCF
Should be wider dispersion than what you have.
I like a 10" 2-way idea.
And it is easier to have a smaller good sounding horn than a big one, and cheaper.
Good luck !!
I'd cross it at 1,500.
5" deep, i dont think think it would disperse even 70 degrees at 10khz........
Found their documentation, definitely tighter at 8khz than 4khz, should add a bit of boost at the cost of dispersion, but i like the rounded off path in 2 of the dimensions, wish it did it in all 4.
Product Detail - RCF
Should be wider dispersion than what you have.
I like a 10" 2-way idea.
And it is easier to have a smaller good sounding horn than a big one, and cheaper.
Good luck !!
If you have a 3D printer I suggest trying out https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/338806-acoustic-horn-design-easy-ath4-771.html#post6749615, not sure if this are the latest files, i think they are 🙂 mo' ino in the thread what is it all about. Top shelf performance, but noy sure about the WAF.
My main PA speakers use 2x10"+HF. I really like them.
What is it you're looking to improve by moving from 8" to 10"?
Chris
Looks amazing! I did some brief research in to getting something like this printed and it would run in to the £500s and I'm not sure I have space for a 3D printer although I would REALLY like one. Wish I knew someone local with one who I could befriend!
I had looked at the Delatlite before, so will reconsider! Cheers.
Excellent idea! I'm not tied to a British manufacturer but in this day and age it wouldn't hurt. How do you like the Fane you mentioned? Very cheap, suspiciously so...
Cheers mate, I'll do some comparisons. The set up is Peerless DFM-2535R00-08, Faital 8PR200 and STH100 Horn. Sounds really good but would like to try constant directivity with slightly wider directivity as my wife and I sit on opposite sides of the sofa so something that doesn't dull the top end on my side would be great.
Cheers man, got any suggestion for alternative horns? As mentioned above I'm looking for a wider constant directivity 🙂
How much do I need to spend on a 3D printer for this kind of print? Would be great but not sure I can justify the spend 🙂
Hey Chris,
Quite simply, I have the space for larger and would like to see if there are better drivers. I am convinced of the Peerless CDs quality, it sounds great, but it's a bit small to comfortably go down low to match a 10" or 12". Changing the setup isn't just about going up in size but up in quality. Can you recommend any good 10 or 12s within the budget that will give great performance?
^ in the ATH thread multiple people lifted up Prusa Mini+ printer, big enough print area for quite big waveguide due to "petal" construction. I think it is something around 500$ or less, not too much for good quality printer out of the box. If I remember correctly someone mentioned one spool of filament is enough for pair of waveguides. You can get them printed for you as well, don't have a clue how much that would cost though. Anyway, would be an improvement over PA waveguides commonly available. Have fun with your project!
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I don't have 3D printer either. I've contacted a firm who does that and it costed around 50 euros for a pair.
Well, I'm a fan of the Faital 10FH520 drivers I use in my PA system. They're very easy to work with and sound great. The 12" is probably a similar story.
FWIW, I'm in a similar situation with 8" midbass + HF speakers, but my plan is to add another 8" per side and rework to a 2.5-way. The second driver will be close to the floor, intended to eliminate floor/ceiling-bounce, which ought to improve the response in the upper bass "impact" area.
Chris
well, for this kind of project I think the Faital 10PR320 8R is the better one compared to the 10FH520, they have a flatter response up high and get to 50Hz F3 in the right case. But Faital in general is a good choice for this kind of projects i think.
Yep, the lower Fs should help it reach lower frequencies, albeit in a larger box. The upper range looks easier to work, too, depending on the intended crossover point.
The 10FH520 has demodulation in the motor, though. I use them up to around 1.2kHz, where an 18Sound ND1460 takes over, so the >2kHz range isn't such a concern to me.
Chris
The 10FH520 has demodulation in the motor, though. I use them up to around 1.2kHz, where an 18Sound ND1460 takes over, so the >2kHz range isn't such a concern to me.
Chris
Of course my Irish friend.
I'm in the process of getting all of the crossover parts. When i make test crossovers, i'll do the listening tests and then haul the cabinets back to the hall to remeasure and generate correct spinorama data. Next time i post measurements for ST260, the crossover schematic will be there.
I'm in the process of getting all of the crossover parts. When i make test crossovers, i'll do the listening tests and then haul the cabinets back to the hall to remeasure and generate correct spinorama data. Next time i post measurements for ST260, the crossover schematic will be there.
Zvu, that is much appreciated. To have access to the hall where you do the measurements is invaluable, I envy you my friend.
cheers.
cheers.
I think the printed horn is probably off limits for now, my workshop is small, my wife has just got used to not having tools in the house and I can't go above £250 if I considered one. Later in life for sure.
A couple of additions in 30l cabinets:
Eminence Deltalite II 2510 (Blue) - a nice curve but I don't think it'll get me lower than my current setup.
Monacor SP10-250PRO (green) - same as the rest really, nice EBS alignment but I can't find an awful amount on these drivers plus they are just as expensive as the more common drivers.
Eminence Deltalite II 2510 (Blue) - a nice curve but I don't think it'll get me lower than my current setup.
Monacor SP10-250PRO (green) - same as the rest really, nice EBS alignment but I can't find an awful amount on these drivers plus they are just as expensive as the more common drivers.
Attachments
There aren't too many about with this that aren't a fair chunk more expensive. I saw Josph Crowes blog post on the B&C 10NW76 woofer that has one and it shows great measurements.