Hmm, with its high inductance, there's no way it will be flat to 20 Hz in a simple reflex unless room boundary gain happens to be just right to mirror the speaker's falling response adn/or eat up power handling with EQ.
GM
So you don't think it's worth spending maybe ~$150 for a new set of cabinets for these woofers?
In worst case scenario there's a pair of used ScanSpeak Revelator 26W/8861T00 for sale for ~$352 excluding shipping which will be another ~$50 or so. But that's like the very upper end of my total budget.
Edit: Remember, if needed I can measure the in-room response with the subs and EQ down peaks with a MiniDSP.
In worst case scenario there's a pair of used ScanSpeak Revelator 26W/8861T00 for sale for ~$352 excluding shipping which will be another ~$50 or so. But that's like the very upper end of my total budget.
Edit: Remember, if needed I can measure the in-room response with the subs and EQ down peaks with a MiniDSP.
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$150?! I thought decent wood was cheap in Scandinavia.
Regardless, I only know what the published specs imply, which is it theoretically should go down to a ~18-20 Hz Fb with decent performance overall in a MLTL whereas a simple reflex of a similar net Vb will ideally need a very long, well damped vent that will negate at least some of the large cab's LF gain BW in the process.
1st sim is an end loaded ~93” path-length [48” o.d. high] MLTL, 2nd sim is same with offset driver, vent. 3rd sim is same net Vb, tuning in a golden ratio reflex. All these sims use the same stuffing density. 4th sim is heavily damped reflex.
Of the four, the end loaded MLTL is somewhat better damped than the damped reflex and other MLTL and ~ an order of magnitude better than the reflex, so would be my choice on principle, though no clue how audible any differences may be, if any, once any driver specs variance combined with the XO and in room acoustical conditions are accounted for.
Note that some would argue that the 4th sim is probably the best for a typical room’s gain curve, but personally, I like to have as much acoustical gain as practical and attenuate if need be, lowering any potentially audible distortion rather than boosting/increasing it, or worse, running out of dynamic headroom.
You can probably attenuate the reflex’s peak with digital EQ, but it’s not the same as doing it acoustically, though down this low it may not matter, but then I’m a believer in acoustical solutions for acoustical problems, so prefer to ‘err on the side of caution’ just in case.
GM
Attachments
See my 3rd and 4th sims, neither are flat to 20 Hz as you claimed and the 3rd sim is pretty much useless IME, so we for sure disagree.
GM
If keeping my current woofers is a horribly bad idea, then what else would you recommend?
I found the Dayton DVC385-88 for $309 with would fit well in a ~100l sealed box. -3dB at ~37Hz but since it has quite a lot of xmax I can EQ it down to 30Hz without problems.
Maxspl at 30Hz is 108dB.
If I manage to sell my current woofers for $150, buy the dayton for ~$320 including shipping, a Behringer iNuke3000 for $360 and a MiniDSP for $180. Cabinet material another $150 and it's a total cost of $860 which is... Quite much for me actually.
I found the Dayton DVC385-88 for $309 with would fit well in a ~100l sealed box. -3dB at ~37Hz but since it has quite a lot of xmax I can EQ it down to 30Hz without problems.
Maxspl at 30Hz is 108dB.
If I manage to sell my current woofers for $150, buy the dayton for ~$320 including shipping, a Behringer iNuke3000 for $360 and a MiniDSP for $180. Cabinet material another $150 and it's a total cost of $860 which is... Quite much for me actually.
£400, plus cabinet, without selling your current drivers.
DVC385-88 - Dayton 15 inch DVC Shielded Series Subwoofer - Europe Audio
Behringer NU3000DSP Inuke 3000W Power Amplifier with DSP Control: Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments
Shop around a little.
Going all the way back to basics, instead of throwing random driver/amp configurations around.
How low?
How loud?
How much money?
How big?
DVC385-88 - Dayton 15 inch DVC Shielded Series Subwoofer - Europe Audio
Behringer NU3000DSP Inuke 3000W Power Amplifier with DSP Control: Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments
Shop around a little.
Going all the way back to basics, instead of throwing random driver/amp configurations around.
How low?
How loud?
How much money?
How big?
I want rock-solid down to at least 30Hz. Thinking of putting the XO at either 60 or 80Hz.
~108-110dB or more 30Hz and above. I want headroom.
Maximum 5000-5500SEK or ~$800 or ~£500.
About 100-120l is the largest I want to deal with. Driver size not so important as long as it can do what I stated above, but I guess I need at least a 12" driver.
Or there is a pair of Pioneer s-w250sw for sale for $1080/pair not too far away from where I live. That's the very upper limit and then it's just plug and play.
Anybody has any experience with that model? 12" with a 12" PR.
Anybody has any experience with that model? 12" with a 12" PR.
No experience with that Pioneer. See if you can have a listen. IMHO, you could probably get better sound for less money, but those have a rather nice form factor that's hard to argue with. A pair of them would, I expect, be able to do what you ask of them.
Yeah, will try to get a listen within a month or so. This guy lives ~140km away and without a driver license it can be a bit hard to travel around.
Thanks, and how would the cabinet look like?
It seems like you have suggested vented, closed and some kind of TH or TL box?
Hardly a bad idea as the end loaded MLTL I simmed shows solid performance to below 20 Hz in room, but now you've added a new restriction in size, so its 190-200 L gross is too big.
GM
If I was in your shoes, I would assemble a single, isobaric, 6th order bandpass box, incorporating both of your existing drivers.
Front chamber 15l, tuned to 40 hz. Port = 1.5" x 4.4"
Rear chamber, 45l, tuned to 20 hz. Port = 2" x 11.6"
You could use one of your existing 45l enclosures for the rear chamber and then just build around it.
This would give you a rising FR arch starting at -3db at 62hz, up to +5db at 30hz, rolling down to +2db at 20hz, with an f10 of 15hz.
The only questions I can't answer are; can you fit one driver and the port into the 15l front chamber, and can you hit desired SPL without rocking the excursion?
It would cost next to nothing to try it, and it would be fun.
I can post the WinISD graph a bit later.
Front chamber 15l, tuned to 40 hz. Port = 1.5" x 4.4"
Rear chamber, 45l, tuned to 20 hz. Port = 2" x 11.6"
You could use one of your existing 45l enclosures for the rear chamber and then just build around it.
This would give you a rising FR arch starting at -3db at 62hz, up to +5db at 30hz, rolling down to +2db at 20hz, with an f10 of 15hz.
The only questions I can't answer are; can you fit one driver and the port into the 15l front chamber, and can you hit desired SPL without rocking the excursion?
It would cost next to nothing to try it, and it would be fun.
I can post the WinISD graph a bit later.
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It looks like it would give me quite poor maxspl though, and group delay seems high too.
That may be true, however:
1) The price is right.
2) Group delay is arguably irrelevant at these hz.
3) It will fill in the <35 hz range better than what you have.
4) If you don't like it, you've lost very little and learned a great deal.
BTW, I have never built a bandpass box. This alone is a reason to ignore my advice. This is also exactly the reason why I would build one, if in your shoes.
Even if it is a temporary experiment, it is worth doing. YMMV.
1) The price is right.
2) Group delay is arguably irrelevant at these hz.
3) It will fill in the <35 hz range better than what you have.
4) If you don't like it, you've lost very little and learned a great deal.
BTW, I have never built a bandpass box. This alone is a reason to ignore my advice. This is also exactly the reason why I would build one, if in your shoes.
Even if it is a temporary experiment, it is worth doing. YMMV.
Sounds ok, will give it a try whenever I find some spare time. I think I have some more 22mm particle board somewhere around the house. I wonder though how I will fit both driver and port in 15l...
And by the way, with that port sizes I will get insane air speeds in the ports. Front port at 50W input will hit up to 40m/s and rear port will be high too but not as bad.
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Hmmm... WinISD says the port speeds are OK. 0.06 and 0.07 vent mach...
Regarding the 15l front chamber, I was thinking you could build the chamber big enough to hold the driver and port, calculate the size of the chamber afterwards, then add solid material to displace the extra volume to achieve 15l.
Regarding the 15l front chamber, I was thinking you could build the chamber big enough to hold the driver and port, calculate the size of the chamber afterwards, then add solid material to displace the extra volume to achieve 15l.
... after a bit of play with the box dimensions it appears that you could go with a box with overall dimensions of 12" x 12" x 36" outer dimensions (using 22mm material).
This would make the front chamber 12" x 12" x 8" (outer dimensions, using 22mm material).
Is that big enough?
This would make the front chamber 12" x 12" x 8" (outer dimensions, using 22mm material).
Is that big enough?
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