Hi everyone.
My standard go-to recommendation for most displacement per $ for years now have been the Alpine SWG-1244, at 12" membrane area with 1cm Xlin ((Hvc - Hg) /2) for ~80$. Before that, I used to recommend the Thomann 15LB075, which since its price increase to 75€ has become uncompetitive.
I recently got around to measuring the Alpine, compare it with other products, and more or less confirm the manufacturer performance claim -> Review on Youtube
Popular alternatives are largely uncompetitive from a price/performance standpoint, or unavailable:
Remaining:
Feel free to add to the list, or post changes.
My standard go-to recommendation for most displacement per $ for years now have been the Alpine SWG-1244, at 12" membrane area with 1cm Xlin ((Hvc - Hg) /2) for ~80$. Before that, I used to recommend the Thomann 15LB075, which since its price increase to 75€ has become uncompetitive.
I recently got around to measuring the Alpine, compare it with other products, and more or less confirm the manufacturer performance claim -> Review on Youtube
Popular alternatives are largely uncompetitive from a price/performance standpoint, or unavailable:
- GRS 12SW-4HE (12", 12,5mm Xmax according to manufacturer (no explicit Hvc and Hg), 65$) - out of stock everywhere as of 03/25
- JBL Stage 1210 (12", 11,35mm Xlin, ~80$) - out of stock everywhere as of 03/25
- JBL CX/GX1200, CS1214 - discontinued
- Dayton DCS380-4 (15", 8,4mm Xmax) - discontinued
- Dayton DCS305-4 (12", 9,3mm Xmax (not Xlin), ~100$) - uncompetitive
- Tymphany P830845 (12", 12,5mm Xmax, ~200$) - very uncompetitive
- Mivoc AWM124 (12", 9mm Xmax) - seems discontinued
- Reckhorn D-250 (10", 13cm Xmax, 90€) - not very competitive
- SB Audience Bianco-18SW450 (18", 7,6mm Xlin, 190€) - not competitive
- the box 15LB075-UW4 (15", 4mm Xlin, 75€) - uncompetitive
Remaining:
- Alpine SWG-1244 (12", 1cm Xlin, ~80$)
- Dayton UMII18-22 (18", 28mm Xmax, 300-350$)
- the Ultimax II series in general; not cheap, but still excellent displacement to cost ratio
- maybe GRS 12SW-4HE or JBL Stage 1210, should they become available again
Feel free to add to the list, or post changes.
What exactly makes those listed as uncompetitive such?
Dayton MX series seems like decent bang for the buck although the lack of induction control might not be quite ideal
Dayton MX series seems like decent bang for the buck although the lack of induction control might not be quite ideal
I once made a list of several drivers in order of "EUR/cm3 displacement".
It's outdated, unfortunately, and some of the "best" performers were peerless SLS drivers with very competitive prices from toutlehautparleur, but now NLA or more expensive.
lavoce SSF and LBASS drivers were/are also very cheap (per cm3 displacement) and reckhorn followed soon after.
here are the currently available top contenders plus comparable reckhorn and dayton drivers from my list with up-to-date prices:
actual (lower) prices at TLHP only visible if logged in.
I included lots of other mostly smaller drivers, let me know if you can use the spreadsheet ...
here is an excerpt (with outdated prices) with 8" woofers: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/8-woofer-suggestion.394396/post-7233360
It's outdated, unfortunately, and some of the "best" performers were peerless SLS drivers with very competitive prices from toutlehautparleur, but now NLA or more expensive.
lavoce SSF and LBASS drivers were/are also very cheap (per cm3 displacement) and reckhorn followed soon after.
here are the currently available top contenders plus comparable reckhorn and dayton drivers from my list with up-to-date prices:
- Lavoce LBASS 12-15-8, 12", 4,7 mm Xmax, 47,63 EUR at TLHP (0,19 EUR per cm3 displacement)
- Lavoce SSF 153.00: 15", 6,7 mm Xmax, 115,27 EUR at TLHP (0,20 EUR per cm3 displacement)
- Lavoce SSF 102.40: 10", 8,3 mm Xmax, 58,81 EUR at TLHP (0,22 EUR per cm3 displacement)
- Lavoce SSF 122.50: 12", 11,5 mm Xmax, 111,74 EUR at TLHP (0,22 EUR per cm3 displacement)
- Peerless SLS 830669: 12", 8,3 mm Xmax, 99,95 EUR at soundimports (0,23 EUR per cm3 displacement)
- Reckhorn D200: 8", 8 mm Xmax, 49 EUR at reckhorn (0,29 EUR per cm3 displ.)
- Dayton SD315: 12", 7 mm Xmax, 114,95 EUR at soundimports (0,31 EUR per cm3 displ.)
- Reckhorn D250: 10", 8 mm Xmax, 89 EUR at reckhorn (0,32 EUR per cm3 displ.)
actual (lower) prices at TLHP only visible if logged in.
I included lots of other mostly smaller drivers, let me know if you can use the spreadsheet ...
here is an excerpt (with outdated prices) with 8" woofers: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/8-woofer-suggestion.394396/post-7233360
I got 4 of these. There is a mistake in the datasheet regarding xmax, it should be 13mm. The 8mm is for the D200, that has a 24mm high winding (the D250 has 34mm). I operated it free air with some 60W (lots of movement), and heard no disturbing sounds or noise .
For my project I am limited to 10", so was very happy to find these!
Thanks for the correction - in this case this driver is 0,20 EUR per cm3 of displacement and moves up to second place in my list!
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I wrote "uncompetitive from a price/performance standpoint". It shouldn't be too hard to read a full sentence.
When comparing the lists, it is important to note that I am using Xlin ((Hvc - Hg) / 2), whereas you used Xmax, which is usually defined as ((Hvc - Hg) / 2 + Hg / 4).
To illustrate the difference, the SWG-1244 with 10mm Xlin would have 12,5mm Xmax. Or, the other way around, the chassis currently topping your list, the LBASS12-15-8, with 4,7mm stated Xmax, has 2,65mm Xlin.
Calculating cost/displacement with the Xmax value, the Alpine would easily top your list, with, at the 87€ (free shipping) it currently sits at at Amazon, 0,14€ per cm³. Also, the La Voce currently costs 63€ at TLHP; pushing it to 0,25€ per cm³; if we factor in shipping, approaching double the cost per displacement of the Alpine.
Nice. Has a bit of a weak motor, but seems worth looking at! Has anyone ever measured one of these?
My bad 🙏
Motor for GAS is not weak. Just a matter of purpose. Will be great for open baffle. I have two candidates atm for RiPol project. GAS beeing one of them. The other even cheaper 15"
No need to be rude, I just don't see how the Reckhorn for example would not be competitive. Also seems like a better driver in general than some of the cheapest options
Reckhorn D-250: 0,20€ / cm³ displacement
Alpine SWG-1244: 0,14€ / cm³ displacement
Both calculated for Xmax (as stated, usually ((Hvc - Hg) / 2 + Hg / 4)). Not even counting shipping cost, with which the Reckhorn would have even worse performance / cost.
So, Reckhorn has >40% higher cost per displacement. I don't consider that competitive. I think most people would consider something around 10, maybe max. 20% difference within products competitive.
But I agree that there's slightly more to the equation than just € (or $) per cm³. Like I just criticized on another product, cheaper options for high displacement chassis tend to incur other weaknesses, like weaker motors or lower power handling, potentially requiring larger box sizes.
Alpine SWG-1244: 0,14€ / cm³ displacement
Both calculated for Xmax (as stated, usually ((Hvc - Hg) / 2 + Hg / 4)). Not even counting shipping cost, with which the Reckhorn would have even worse performance / cost.
So, Reckhorn has >40% higher cost per displacement. I don't consider that competitive. I think most people would consider something around 10, maybe max. 20% difference within products competitive.
But I agree that there's slightly more to the equation than just € (or $) per cm³. Like I just criticized on another product, cheaper options for high displacement chassis tend to incur other weaknesses, like weaker motors or lower power handling, potentially requiring larger box sizes.
The way I see it, the Alpine is such an outlier that the comparison isn't necessarily fair. It might not even meet the spec or might have mechanical noise way before Xmax etc.
E: Nevermind since you measured it 🙂
E: Nevermind since you measured it 🙂
I think it's reasonable to have some doubts about low price products. That's why I decided to finally test the Alpine. It met all the expectations, for use as a low frequency speaker - no nasty surprises, except that minor weirdness in the upper bass area, if that even warrants mentioning.
Note: I am not biased, and am fully open to another product testing better. The GAS that Kjelsen suggested definitely looks like a candidate, even though it needs a larger box volume and/or more amp power to reach the same cone excursion as the Alpine.
Note: I am not biased, and am fully open to another product testing better. The GAS that Kjelsen suggested definitely looks like a candidate, even though it needs a larger box volume and/or more amp power to reach the same cone excursion as the Alpine.
STX W.30.500.2x4(or 2x2).MC
Audio System Carbon12 subwoofer
could be contenders too.
Have you considered the even cheaper Alpine SWE-1244E too Stoneeh?
Audio System Carbon12 subwoofer
could be contenders too.
Have you considered the even cheaper Alpine SWE-1244E too Stoneeh?
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I used to make spreadsheets of this stuff over at DIY Mobile Audio.
What I generally found:
1) Alpine subs are a ridiculous bang for the buck. My hunch is that they were "circling the drain" before they were acquired and were basically building some of their greatest subs ever and selling them for peanuts. If you look at the Alpine Type R subs, they're competitive with JL subs that cost 300% as much. The Alpine Type S subs are even a BETTER buy, and the obvious choice if "bang for the buck" is your criteria. On the downside, nobody in the universe seems to be aware of this. I purchased four Alpine Type S subs when Car Toys was blowing them out for $99 each, and over TEN YEARS LATER I still haven't sold them all. I ended up using one of the four I bought.
2) Any type of high xmax car audio 18" sub is basically impossible to beat. The 18" subs from O Audio and Stereo Integrity frequently topped my spreadsheet of "most displacement for the money." The manufacturers do not build them consistently, likely because the margins are probably terrible. I bought an 18" Stereo Integrity sub off of Craigslist for $100 and I think it would basically be impossible to beat that, when it comes to "bang for the buck." I'm a complete hoarder so I've never even used it lol. It's been sitting in my garage since the day I bought it.
What I generally found:
1) Alpine subs are a ridiculous bang for the buck. My hunch is that they were "circling the drain" before they were acquired and were basically building some of their greatest subs ever and selling them for peanuts. If you look at the Alpine Type R subs, they're competitive with JL subs that cost 300% as much. The Alpine Type S subs are even a BETTER buy, and the obvious choice if "bang for the buck" is your criteria. On the downside, nobody in the universe seems to be aware of this. I purchased four Alpine Type S subs when Car Toys was blowing them out for $99 each, and over TEN YEARS LATER I still haven't sold them all. I ended up using one of the four I bought.
2) Any type of high xmax car audio 18" sub is basically impossible to beat. The 18" subs from O Audio and Stereo Integrity frequently topped my spreadsheet of "most displacement for the money." The manufacturers do not build them consistently, likely because the margins are probably terrible. I bought an 18" Stereo Integrity sub off of Craigslist for $100 and I think it would basically be impossible to beat that, when it comes to "bang for the buck." I'm a complete hoarder so I've never even used it lol. It's been sitting in my garage since the day I bought it.
Stereo Integrity has completely nuked their web page for their HT-18 subwoofer, I guess we won't be seeing that one anymore lol
Specs can be found on Facebook here, the Stereo Integrity page isn't even in The Wayback Machine:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2253281528235134/posts/3405782022985073/
It has an 18" cone and 25mm of xmax and you can find units on sale on Craigslist and eBay RIGHT NOW for under $200 delivered. Will be really hard to beat that deal.
Specs can be found on Facebook here, the Stereo Integrity page isn't even in The Wayback Machine:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2253281528235134/posts/3405782022985073/
It has an 18" cone and 25mm of xmax and you can find units on sale on Craigslist and eBay RIGHT NOW for under $200 delivered. Will be really hard to beat that deal.
Gladen should also be considered. They don't always publish TS parameters, but they are happy to reply i mail.
The Alpha 12 inch have 11 mm Xmax but high Qts = 0,67. Cost is as low as 70€/76$ from masori. The M Line 12 is similar in Xmax but 0,36 Qts if you need stronger motor. Both have Fs close to 30 Hz. I have the obsolete RS15FA (175€/188€) in my current system. I consider Gladen to be of very high quality, Thanks to this thread I looked into this brand again. No need to look for unknown brands like GAS to be honest.
The Alpha 12 inch have 11 mm Xmax but high Qts = 0,67. Cost is as low as 70€/76$ from masori. The M Line 12 is similar in Xmax but 0,36 Qts if you need stronger motor. Both have Fs close to 30 Hz. I have the obsolete RS15FA (175€/188€) in my current system. I consider Gladen to be of very high quality, Thanks to this thread I looked into this brand again. No need to look for unknown brands like GAS to be honest.