I am working on new 3-way speakers project with two 12" woofers in parallel.
Impedance drops to 2.3 ohm between 40 to 60 Hz so I need power amp which can handle 2 ohm load.
There are not much choices, I have found only two amps with equired specs.
TPA3255 (dual core board)
TPA3255 (upgraded version)
IRS2092+IRFB4227 (stereo board)
IRS2092+IRFB4227 (mono board)
Both have enough power but for home listening 50 W is more than enough.
THD+N: TPA3255 is 0.006% at 50W 4ohm
IRS2092 is 0.01% at 50W 4ohm
This low distortion is surely not audible (speakers have much bigger distortion) but there is big difference with SNR.
SNR: TPA3255 is 111 dB
IRS2092 is 90 dB only !
Does anybody have listening experience with some of these power amps? Which one would you recommend?
My goal is clear, articulated and deep bass, wide 3D soundstage, clarity and details.
I know these parameters depends much more on pre amp but I would like to discuss it later. 🙂
Impedance drops to 2.3 ohm between 40 to 60 Hz so I need power amp which can handle 2 ohm load.
There are not much choices, I have found only two amps with equired specs.
TPA3255 (dual core board)
TPA3255 (upgraded version)
IRS2092+IRFB4227 (stereo board)
IRS2092+IRFB4227 (mono board)
Both have enough power but for home listening 50 W is more than enough.
THD+N: TPA3255 is 0.006% at 50W 4ohm
IRS2092 is 0.01% at 50W 4ohm
This low distortion is surely not audible (speakers have much bigger distortion) but there is big difference with SNR.
SNR: TPA3255 is 111 dB
IRS2092 is 90 dB only !
Does anybody have listening experience with some of these power amps? Which one would you recommend?
My goal is clear, articulated and deep bass, wide 3D soundstage, clarity and details.
I know these parameters depends much more on pre amp but I would like to discuss it later. 🙂
Clarity, articulation and detail are things related to the upper midrange and treble frequencies. Bass has nothing much to do with these.
Professional linear amplifier.
Not at all. If that were the case there wouldn't be a power amp and loudspeaker market.
Thanks for reply.
I do not want to buy the professional amplifier. I want to build my own.
I have read many reviews and articles and watched many sound tests of TPA3255.
Also I have read great review of ZeroZone IRS2092 so I came to a conclusion that IRS2092 will better meet my requirements.
Does anybody have a listening experience with this chip?
I do not want to buy the professional amplifier. I want to build my own.
I have read many reviews and articles and watched many sound tests of TPA3255.
Also I have read great review of ZeroZone IRS2092 so I came to a conclusion that IRS2092 will better meet my requirements.
Does anybody have a listening experience with this chip?
In active speakers, the amplifier itself has little to do with what you listed.
If you want to get 50W from the amplifiers, then it doesn't make much difference what chip you build the amplifier on, but purely from a technical point of view, the 3255 amplifier will be less demanding on the power supply because it doesn't have the pumping effect and it's much easier to make good stabilization in a single-pole power supply than in a two-pole power supply. If you approach the issue comprehensively, then the 3255 amplifier is a little more complicated, but it's easier to get a good end result on it.
Thank you very much, I appreciate it.
I am building passive speakers but as I have mentioned, its impedancy drops to very low value so I need amp which can handle 2 ohms load and there are not so many of them.
Now I am using amp with TPA3116D2. Sound is good but not good enough. There is no 3D soundstage, no depth at all, everything is in the front, I am missing clarity and details and also more detailed bass. I am afraid with TPA3255 I would not get what I want and it would not be so much different from what I have now. That´s why I am thinking of IRS2092 chip. TPA has much better parameters but as I heard in sound tests maybe not so good sound as IRS.
Please, read this review. That sound is what I would like to achieve.
ZeroZone IRS 2092
I am building passive speakers but as I have mentioned, its impedancy drops to very low value so I need amp which can handle 2 ohms load and there are not so many of them.
Now I am using amp with TPA3116D2. Sound is good but not good enough. There is no 3D soundstage, no depth at all, everything is in the front, I am missing clarity and details and also more detailed bass. I am afraid with TPA3255 I would not get what I want and it would not be so much different from what I have now. That´s why I am thinking of IRS2092 chip. TPA has much better parameters but as I heard in sound tests maybe not so good sound as IRS.
Please, read this review. That sound is what I would like to achieve.
ZeroZone IRS 2092
Did you build the speaker based on microphone measurements or just assemble it based on the speaker datasheets?
Rarely is an amplifier capable of spoiling the signal so much. What you are aiming for cannot be solved by one amplifier, because the speaker and the room in which it is listened to are primarily responsible for these effects, and the amplifier is the last to be responsible for them.
I am just simulating crossover by datasheets, no measurements are available. I know it´s not the best way...
But this way I did my current 3-way speakers and they sound amazing.
This is great video with excellent depth of sound from Marantz.
Focal Chora 826
My brother has theese speakers powered by Onkyo receiver and there is no dept at all and no such bass.
They sound totaly different with Onkyo.
But this way I did my current 3-way speakers and they sound amazing.
This is great video with excellent depth of sound from Marantz.
Focal Chora 826
My brother has theese speakers powered by Onkyo receiver and there is no dept at all and no such bass.
They sound totaly different with Onkyo.
Yes, and you are not satisfied with the performance of your amplifier.
Making a good three-way speaker without microphone measurements is a very, very difficult task.
I went this way, I assembled three-way speakers without a microphone, tuned them by ear using headphones, yes, of course they sounded good .... but only a measuring microphone allowed me to see the problems of mixing three bands, and only microphone measurements opened my eyes to the problems that are heard by ears such as blurred 3D images and stereo panorama.
Assemble the amplifier that you consider more optimal for your speaker system, and then if the result does not satisfy you, then think carefully not about the next amplifier, but about buying a measuring microphone. What you are striving for is impossible to do by simply selecting an amplifier, you need to adjust the frequency response of the speaker system itself, and you need to integrate the speaker system into the room, i.e. you need to take into account the influence of room acoustics on the sound. Finding the optimal path without a microphone is very, very difficult.
I only know the TPA3255 (integrated in a box - FOSI Audio BT20A) - I've listen to it a lot, I have friends and studio owner that also uses it.
It sounds great and matches what we see in the datasheet specs.
This little Fosi unit, if you listen loud, above 80 or 90W, in a hot day, sometimes the temperature control kicks in and it shuts down due to lack of proper heatsink - they use the aluminium box as heatsink. The board from the link you sent seams to have a better heatsink - anyways, 50W should be ok.
On the other hand the IRS2092+IRFB4227 option is much more robust, since the MOSFETs are discrete and handles huge levels of current.
If it was for a PA, it would be a better choice. But for your use, indoor residential, 50W, no distortion maybe it's not necessary.
I had not have the chance of listening to this yet - I have the IRS2092 IC and I plan to build an amp with it - fun for the next weeks (or months!).
I totally agree with @urly-ch and I use to do exactly the same procedure of adjusting 3-way speaker by ear comparing the speaker to a headphone.
It took a lot of iterations, soldering, desoldering, changing components, inverting polarity etc and never got really flat.
I used to get some reasonable results, but nothing compared to use a calibrated analog mic (US$100.00) and REW + XSIM on a PC.
When I discovered the procedure of getting myself the T&S parameters, Impedance and FR curves to use them in the XSIM.
It blew my mind and changed my life completely. I recently built a 3-way speaker in one shot. Got the data, simulate and built - no changes
And I also agree that the amp will play minimum, if none, difference in sound.
It sounds great and matches what we see in the datasheet specs.
This little Fosi unit, if you listen loud, above 80 or 90W, in a hot day, sometimes the temperature control kicks in and it shuts down due to lack of proper heatsink - they use the aluminium box as heatsink. The board from the link you sent seams to have a better heatsink - anyways, 50W should be ok.
On the other hand the IRS2092+IRFB4227 option is much more robust, since the MOSFETs are discrete and handles huge levels of current.
If it was for a PA, it would be a better choice. But for your use, indoor residential, 50W, no distortion maybe it's not necessary.
I had not have the chance of listening to this yet - I have the IRS2092 IC and I plan to build an amp with it - fun for the next weeks (or months!).
I totally agree with @urly-ch and I use to do exactly the same procedure of adjusting 3-way speaker by ear comparing the speaker to a headphone.
It took a lot of iterations, soldering, desoldering, changing components, inverting polarity etc and never got really flat.
I used to get some reasonable results, but nothing compared to use a calibrated analog mic (US$100.00) and REW + XSIM on a PC.
When I discovered the procedure of getting myself the T&S parameters, Impedance and FR curves to use them in the XSIM.
It blew my mind and changed my life completely. I recently built a 3-way speaker in one shot. Got the data, simulate and built - no changes
And I also agree that the amp will play minimum, if none, difference in sound.
Thank you very much for your answer. I appreciate it very much.
I will do my best and certainly will think about your suggestion.
Thank you very much. Both of you have the same opinion so I have to trust you. 🙂
But I know you are right. I will have to think of buying a measuring equipment and start from the beginning.
Thanks for sharing experience with Fosi. I know it and it seems to be a good amp so I will think of it.
For the first time, this is the best choice because this microphone is compatible with REW and does not require an external sound card, a very convenient thing when you are just starting to make measurements. I have exactly this microphone, it seemed very convenient to me and its capabilities were enough for me to set up my three-way.
Hi!
Does this USB mic perform timed measurements?
If yes, how do you get the timing reference?
I use an analog mic (dbx) and through a pre-amp I connected to one of the the sound card line input channel.
The other channel is looped electrically to the output for timing reference, so REW knows the delay between electrical (instantaneous) and the acoustic signals.
For building crossovers, we need the exact distance of each speaker in order to sync the FR files in crossover simulators such as XSIM.
This is possible if you set the acoustic reference time in the REW program.
Below is an example of a measurement with this setting.
That´s great, thank you.
Is there any problem with bass frequencies as some other mics have?
And one more thing. Is there any tutorial how to design a crossover with this equipment? I would be grateful.