My current speakers, shown Here have the D3404 tweeters. They are good for the frequency they cover but they start diving down at 10k and really drop like a stone at 14k. (Close mic’d) As you can imagine they have a laidback sound quite rolled off in the highs. I’ve ordered some aurum cantus ast2560 aero striction tweeters to play around with to see if I can use it as a super tweeter crossed over at around 12 or 14k. Anyone have experience with this AMT adding it as a super tweeter? As you can tell my speakers do not have room to place it next to the other tweeter so my first thought is to add it on the side of the speaker (in a dipole) toward the back angled out to the first reflection point to disperse it enough so it is not competing with the main tweeter but more of a background fill firing out and back… thoughts? They will be here in a few days.
There‘s no musical content above 12khz……and most men above 30 can’t hear above 15k…..not sure what you’re obsessing over.
If the top end dispersion is bothering you.
Instead of trying to add a supertweeter with it's downfalls in vertical lobing and destructive interference from phase tracking/short wavlength cancellations.
I would seriously consider the Bliesma T34A if you like large domes. They can be crossed lower, price is less then SS, have more headroom, keeps they're composure at high spls, distortion is class leading and the dispersion characteristics with the shaped dome is better then a lot of 1" domes.
The higish Fs might require a notch depending on your ears/ how low you cross.
Instead of trying to add a supertweeter with it's downfalls in vertical lobing and destructive interference from phase tracking/short wavlength cancellations.
I would seriously consider the Bliesma T34A if you like large domes. They can be crossed lower, price is less then SS, have more headroom, keeps they're composure at high spls, distortion is class leading and the dispersion characteristics with the shaped dome is better then a lot of 1" domes.
The higish Fs might require a notch depending on your ears/ how low you cross.
You really need to have that tweeter rotated 90 degrees to what you've got pictured in the thread where you've described the speakers above.
With them oriented like you've got shown the tweeters will have wider dispersion in the vertical axis than the horizontal. Which is usually considered much less than ideal.
Edit - I would actually expect that depression between 4-8kHz to have more sonic effect than the top octave droop but the crossover for the finished speakers looks less than ideal, in my eyes, anyway.
First thing is to rotate those tweeters though.
With them oriented like you've got shown the tweeters will have wider dispersion in the vertical axis than the horizontal. Which is usually considered much less than ideal.
Edit - I would actually expect that depression between 4-8kHz to have more sonic effect than the top octave droop but the crossover for the finished speakers looks less than ideal, in my eyes, anyway.
First thing is to rotate those tweeters though.
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I second that as well the driver due to it's asymmetric diaphragm design ought to be rotated 90º into the position the designer intended them to be used primarily, although it's up to each ones freedom how to use them, the frequency dispersion response differs whether the D3404 is measured along the short or long plane.
Looking at Scanspeak D3404 datasheet one discovers they have provided measurements only for one plane, the short plane / horizontal axis, which is somewhat baffling and disappointing considering that it's a premium line product, thankfully HiFiCompass (D3404 article) have measured the driver in both planes, maybe that reflects your listening observations, it may be worth trying out rotating the driver to begin with.
short plane / horizontal axis
long plane / vertical axis
ps. Your Grande Utopia inspired builds are truly amazing looking! 👍
Looking at Scanspeak D3404 datasheet one discovers they have provided measurements only for one plane, the short plane / horizontal axis, which is somewhat baffling and disappointing considering that it's a premium line product, thankfully HiFiCompass (D3404 article) have measured the driver in both planes, maybe that reflects your listening observations, it may be worth trying out rotating the driver to begin with.
short plane / horizontal axis
long plane / vertical axis
ps. Your Grande Utopia inspired builds are truly amazing looking! 👍
I have used the AST2560 as a nude dipole tweeter in a couple of builds. They are IMO pretty good, but not a "super tweeter". It also has a drooping top end with increasing directivity above 10kHz, it just droops at little higher frequency than the large dome tweeter you are using now. I'm not convinced that aiming them to reflect off of any surface is a good idea. Most interior home surfaces found in the US (e.g. drywall) are increasingly diffusive and adsorptive to sound above about 7kHz.
Find yourself a proper "super tweeter" if you want to try that sort of add-on to your system.
I wish I could get remotely close to those 0grad measurements! The measurements shown in my link are from 0grad 1 cm away. Even without a crossover the top still drops off nothing like the manufacturers graphs. I’m definitely hearing a loss of highs compared to my previous tweeter/ speakers. That may be the solution. Just get a better performing tweeter… for a lot less money. One of the things I’m going to try is turning the SS off and using the AMT only.
thanks for the info and ideas, they came a day early so I’ll do some experimenting and post my first findings this weekend.
thanks for the info and ideas, they came a day early so I’ll do some experimenting and post my first findings this weekend.
So this was eye opening. The tweeter test 1 graph shows the SS tweeter in black and the others are with the AMT. all individually close mic’d with a crossover and without and the wool backing on vs off. (Crossover by the way was second order 1.8 uf cap and a .05 mH inductor )The next graph shows the average vector of both in the impossible best case scenario. The third graph is together at 1m as a super tweeter configuration. With the “best” being right next to and somewhat overlapping. All the others are moving the AMT 1” back and away. The comb filtering was no surprise. It was what I was missing in the highs.
I currently have a 4 ohm r on the SS tweeter and a 3 ohm on the 4” mid and no pad on the AMT and that amt has a sensitivity of 95 and as you can see is not loud enough in that frequency. But I did do some listening with it added on the right speaker in the “best” location. At first I really didn’t hear anything until I listened to a track with an acoustic drum kit. The jangle interaction of high hats and shimmer off of symbol was immediately noticeable. I turned them on and off during a song and it was better on.
The eye opening part is I can’t go back to my SS tweeters and I can’t combine them into my speakers gracefully. I see a lot of Mundorf amts are 93 db sens which makes me wonder if that will work… I’m not there yet… but I am definitely changing this tweeter to something else. I like what it does do but I can’t live without real drums.
I currently have a 4 ohm r on the SS tweeter and a 3 ohm on the 4” mid and no pad on the AMT and that amt has a sensitivity of 95 and as you can see is not loud enough in that frequency. But I did do some listening with it added on the right speaker in the “best” location. At first I really didn’t hear anything until I listened to a track with an acoustic drum kit. The jangle interaction of high hats and shimmer off of symbol was immediately noticeable. I turned them on and off during a song and it was better on.
The eye opening part is I can’t go back to my SS tweeters and I can’t combine them into my speakers gracefully. I see a lot of Mundorf amts are 93 db sens which makes me wonder if that will work… I’m not there yet… but I am definitely changing this tweeter to something else. I like what it does do but I can’t live without real drums.
