I think I've caught a bug after first restoring & modding a pair 1971 Klipsch H700 Heresy speakers, then making my own cabinets to house the mods. The sound of the super sensitive, horn-loaded speakers is unlike anything I've experienced before and I'd like to take it further and build a fully loaded, 3 way, horn driven speaker for my next project. However, I may or may not have some impossible requirements: Ideally, I'd like the bass driver to operate from at least 30 Hz on the low end, to 400-600 hz, with the squawker handling 400 to roughly 10k, with the tweeters running from 4k Hz up to 20k Hz, with at least 99 dB sensitivity. So far, so good right? We're roughly looking at a modded Klipsch La Scala clone or something similar. here's where it gets tougher: I'd like a much smaller footprint, no bigger than a Cornscalla, even smaller, if possible; I can go deeper, but I'd rather not go wider. Is such a thing possible? can a fully horn loaded speaker be made that is not more than 24" wide?
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My Altec A5 system was basically that. It’s wasn’t “fully” horn loaded, but close. Not that narrow, though.
The bass is always going to be the problem if you want that kind of efficiency. 96dB/watt is an easier target.
The bass is always going to be the problem if you want that kind of efficiency. 96dB/watt is an easier target.
I have some drivers in mind that will deliver at least 99 dB sensitivity, but the low end rolls off at 40Hz. Presumably, a horn enclosure will maintain sensitivity, but that hinges on a bass driver that extends lower.
A 30Hz horn loaded bass section will be gigantic, there is no escaping physics.
Many tradeoffs that only you can make. If you're passive and serious about front-loaded 99 and 30, it'll need to be outside your house, in the basement, in the attic, multiple drivers, or not a "conventional" horn. If you're active, you can do a lot of things but again those compromise choices have to be your own. Read the Keele thing, then Dinsdale to stay all fired-up 🙂
What you already have is a sane compromise that fits unobtrusively domestically, depending on the time of life/driving conditions. If you still want to go after big wavelengths + loud, it wont be small so built-in may become a sensible option.
What you already have is a sane compromise that fits unobtrusively domestically, depending on the time of life/driving conditions. If you still want to go after big wavelengths + loud, it wont be small so built-in may become a sensible option.
certainly, one should be able to build a horn based on theFibonacci ratio that's not more than 2' wide, 3' deep and 5' tall, no? if I have to live with a 40hz bass roll off, so be it.
First. Compact. Fully Loaded. These two really fight each other.
The more compact it is the less bass potential it will have.
You can use wall/floor or corners to increase effective size if the horn.
30 Hz = 452” -> approximate perimeter of the necessary mouth. It also has to be a certain length. If the mouth is circular that would be a radius of 6’.
Note that the Heresy with an XO of 700 hz, it is horn loaded over a bit under 5 octaves. Direct radiator for the rest.
dave
The more compact it is the less bass potential it will have.
You can use wall/floor or corners to increase effective size if the horn.
30 Hz = 452” -> approximate perimeter of the necessary mouth. It also has to be a certain length. If the mouth is circular that would be a radius of 6’.
Note that the Heresy with an XO of 700 hz, it is horn loaded over a bit under 5 octaves. Direct radiator for the rest.
dave
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I have played and played and this lovely number sequence has yet to let me generate any usable horn geometry.
dave.
it looks as though the Edgar Monolith & midrange horns, however inelegantly, fits my rubric, at least for the bottom I middle ends. I'm not a fan of baffle less speakers but with a tractrix horn and the right compression driver and one of @Dave Tennesseee's large Machined Audio Horn Lens tweeters, something could be made to work. If all else fails, a Cornscala, with a front radiating woofer, will get me almost exactly what I want; the upshot for that one is that the maths have already been done and I just have to build the enclosure, buy the bits and finish it well.
https://www.itishifi.com/hifi/bruce-edgar-monolith-horn
https://www.itishifi.com/hifi/bruce-edgar-monolith-horn
I've got Edgar Titan II's, with Salad Bowls (pure Tractrix), and Ciare Bullet Tweeters, which are Fabulous. Got his Tall Horn Sub too with custom amplifier for it. Fantastic 2.1 setup in my basement!
I would if i had the room. Floor space is a premium in my 1800 sf, inner city condo.
Bruce also had a 'show horn' which, while not going as low as the Monolith, was more attractive and smaller. There are also positive reports on the University Classic, which again, is smaller and more attractive than the Monolith. Neither of those will be as convenient in driver choice as a Cornwall or Cornscala.
I dove down a rabbit hole today instead of working and I'm starting to think that a Cornscala with an Eminence Kappalite woofer, a ltractrix horn and a lMAHL is probably the most cost and labor effective way to reach my auditory goals. #phillyshrug
Why don't you build and Underground Jubilee Clone bass bin? Good use of 8 sheets of 5x5 baltic birch! 40-500 Hz. no problem.
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If I lived in the suburbs, I wouldn't hesitate. However, inner-city Philadelphia condo is just 1800 sf, my listening area is a mere 14' x 10', although it's part of a bigger room that includes the kitchen and dining area that's about roughly 22' x 20'. in addition to that, there's the partner approval factor: I could convince her of something La Scala or Cornwall sized, if i worked on it.
Also for context: back in July, we had a Bose Wave radio in the living room, then I brought home a receiver and 6 bookshelf speakers from work. That in turn, inspired me to restore the H700 Heresy speakers that had been collecting dust in the carriage house, a few blocks away, where I store my tools... now, all of a sudden, our living room has a 7.1 surround system, with the Heresies powered by a 2nd amp, a turntable and a burgeoning record collection... (I'd digitized and sold off my collection of 5000+ CDs and a few hundred LP's, years ago, when I'd moved from the metro Detroit area, to Philly) So, like the allegory of the Camel's Nose, I need to ease her into it...
DaveTennessee might have a pair of Cornwalls for sale soon. Also the Underground Jube (I have plans) Clone only sticks out of Corners 30", which is way less than LaScala or Cornwall, physically. Once you experience Horn Bass, you will NEVER go back.
my listening space lacks actual corners; here it is before I completed the Baby Cornwall/ Super Heresies with @Dave Tennesseee 's sMAHL tweeters:
![[IMG]](https://i.imgur.com/VWphv0m.jpg "[IMG]")
I believe I've made some minor alterations since then, notably a mahogany case for the power amp that's driving the the Super Heresies, but that gives a basic view of the sound stage I'm forking with for the foreseeable future. Ideally, I'd like to build my horns from scratch in my wood shop. I'd be curious to see the underground Jube clone plans; I've already got Cornwall plans, La Scala bins are next, I imagine. Unless I receive another head injury, one that somehow broadens my capability to grok algebraic formulas for calculating cabinet shapes and sizes, I'll stick with plans. While I have many skills and talents that elude others, maths make me dizzy in an unpleasant way.