Hello
So here is a short story.
I built Markaudio Pluvia 7.2HD with Pensil Cabinets. I used some cheap sommerclabe in the cabinet and also on the outside where i connected it to the Class D amp.
So then i decided to buy Mogami 3103 cable and test them out. I kept the Sommercable in the speaker cabinet while only changing the outside cables to Mogami. The difference was huge, Soundstage was very deep and wide and tone was much more smoother and transparent. So was very shocked how much difference it made.
So after this discovery i decided to also change the inside speaker cables that are in cabinet to Mogami to improve the sound further. After i did that the sound wasnt smooth anymore it got brighter and a bit sibilant and soundstage totally changed again.
Why would changing speakers that are inside cabinet have such a drastic difference in sound? What about comercial speakers that usually use very thin wire as most people only change outside speaker wire.
Is it because of amp load? capacitance? inductance?
Would really like to understand whats happening here and whats causing such a big difference?
So here is a short story.
I built Markaudio Pluvia 7.2HD with Pensil Cabinets. I used some cheap sommerclabe in the cabinet and also on the outside where i connected it to the Class D amp.
So then i decided to buy Mogami 3103 cable and test them out. I kept the Sommercable in the speaker cabinet while only changing the outside cables to Mogami. The difference was huge, Soundstage was very deep and wide and tone was much more smoother and transparent. So was very shocked how much difference it made.
So after this discovery i decided to also change the inside speaker cables that are in cabinet to Mogami to improve the sound further. After i did that the sound wasnt smooth anymore it got brighter and a bit sibilant and soundstage totally changed again.
Why would changing speakers that are inside cabinet have such a drastic difference in sound? What about comercial speakers that usually use very thin wire as most people only change outside speaker wire.
Is it because of amp load? capacitance? inductance?
Would really like to understand whats happening here and whats causing such a big difference?
https://eventhorizon-srv.com/shop/m...MIh7e_0q7b-gIVxgCtBh35oAuJEAAYAiAAEgIkSvD_BwE
12g. Ceratinly wire can make a diiference. I usually go the other way. I use 24g solid core wires pulled from a CAT5/6 cable.
The change to thick wire with a low Rout Class D amplifer could be causing the amplifier to over-damp the bass causing the HF ro stand out on stark relief.
Try going the other directions and see what happens.
Less damping may also take you in the right direction if the damping jypothesis holds out.
Speakers, anplifiers, and what connects them is a system. They work together.
dave
12g. Ceratinly wire can make a diiference. I usually go the other way. I use 24g solid core wires pulled from a CAT5/6 cable.
The change to thick wire with a low Rout Class D amplifer could be causing the amplifier to over-damp the bass causing the HF ro stand out on stark relief.
Try going the other directions and see what happens.
Less damping may also take you in the right direction if the damping jypothesis holds out.
Speakers, anplifiers, and what connects them is a system. They work together.
dave
That looks like nice heavy cable. Just the ticket for my next amp power cord. 😉
What's Sommercable?
jeff
What's Sommercable?
jeff
SommerCable Twincord 2.5
https://shop.sommercable.com/en/Cable/Bulk-Cable-Speaker/Lautsprecherkabel-SC-Twincord-400-0250.html
https://shop.sommercable.com/en/Cable/Bulk-Cable-Speaker/Lautsprecherkabel-SC-Twincord-400-0250.html
Those amplifers can have quite different output impedances whereas, at least all i have seen, Cass D are low. Most AB amplifiers will be low Rout, fewer Class A amps, Class AB tube amplifers tend to a bit higher Rout than a SS one, largely due to the OPT. SE tube amps are typically highish Rout, Some Class A SE amps as well (ie ACA).
Easiest experiemnt is to continue swapping cables fro awhile. Then dig deeper if needed.
dave
Easiest experiemnt is to continue swapping cables fro awhile. Then dig deeper if needed.
dave
So what do you suggest what kind of cable should i put inside the cab then? Thinner wire? And then use Mogami on the outside to amp?
Surprised there isnt a special forum in DIYAudio for the "connects" part. There's Analog Line Level where RCA and AES/EBU fits.
Cable threads have almost universally ended in ruin, we do not encourage them.
The right cable for your system is the one that works for you.
dave
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It seems that it may not suit your system.
If we look at the cable as a source of loss of information, the first change (external wire) increased the amount of information so things improved, but step2 taking you backwards suggests that the older cable was losing some very distinct information, which when reveled aren’t so good, exposing system weaknesses.
Try something way different just to learn what happens. This helps you understand where your system is/ Scraps pf CAT5/6 cable are often free.
There is both thickness (largely R) of the cable, but the quality of the actual copper and the insulation also play a role so just speccing the cross-section only tells you part of the system.
dave
If we look at the cable as a source of loss of information, the first change (external wire) increased the amount of information so things improved, but step2 taking you backwards suggests that the older cable was losing some very distinct information, which when reveled aren’t so good, exposing system weaknesses.
Try something way different just to learn what happens. This helps you understand where your system is/ Scraps pf CAT5/6 cable are often free.
There is both thickness (largely R) of the cable, but the quality of the actual copper and the insulation also play a role so just speccing the cross-section only tells you part of the system.
dave
if you can find peace of Kimber TC speaker cable, just one peace of wire per connector will be enough. Its a high quality copper in teflon. I use it with Pluvia 7HD
https://www.takefiveaudio.com/products/907-neotech-upocc-24-awg-teflon-insulation-cryo-treated/
On my wish list for high-end wire.
dave
On my wish list for high-end wire.
dave
Expectation bias / builder´s pride / won´t pass a DBT
Same thing.
It is physically/biologically impossible that going from 0.01 ohm cables (considering some 50cm length inside) to 0.0025 ohm does such gross change.
Now if we include Human imagination/suggestion in the mix, anything is possible.
Answer yourself:
- exact same amp load (0,001 ohm difference in series resistance is undetectable, specially considering other impedances involved)
- exact same capacitance
- exact same inductance
We have all been through that or very similar,sadly nothing backing that experience in the physical realm.
A case of metaphysics rather than physics, or so it would appear.
"The natural scientists base their answers on observation, experiment, measurement and calculation, while the metaphysicians base theirs on armchair reflection."
The thing is, people (typically without a disciplined background in science or engineering) make some change like that, then listen and think they hear the fruits (or otherwise) of their efforts. It's a different day, they've slept, maybe had a coffee or an argument, the temperature and humidity are different, and there are probably 10 further environmental differences, yet in the blinkered absence of rationality they conclude that what they think they heard was attributable solely to the the irrelevant change they made yesterday. Over these incredibly short distances the choice of appropriate speaker cable A or B is as near to irrelevant as the tide and moon phase. Experimental control was absent, so the conclusions must be dismissed.