Hi,
I want to assemble a small active 3 way speaker design and I will be using the Dayton Audio KABD-430 amp. which has an integrated ADAU1701 DSP.
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-KABD-430-4-x-30W-Bluetooth-Amp-Board-with-DSP-325-430
The idea is 2x 30W (tweeter and mids) + 1x 60W (woofer). I know it's not much, but these will be used in a small room with 4+ subwoofers.
The thing is that I need a power supply for the 120W of total power. Is it OK If I go with a 150W SMPS? Or it's recommended to go with 200W?
I am thinking in the LRS line from Meanwell.
Amp + DSP will be in a separate compartment from the SMPS.
Looking forward to your replies.
I want to assemble a small active 3 way speaker design and I will be using the Dayton Audio KABD-430 amp. which has an integrated ADAU1701 DSP.
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-KABD-430-4-x-30W-Bluetooth-Amp-Board-with-DSP-325-430
The idea is 2x 30W (tweeter and mids) + 1x 60W (woofer). I know it's not much, but these will be used in a small room with 4+ subwoofers.
The thing is that I need a power supply for the 120W of total power. Is it OK If I go with a 150W SMPS? Or it's recommended to go with 200W?
I am thinking in the LRS line from Meanwell.
Amp + DSP will be in a separate compartment from the SMPS.
Looking forward to your replies.
Do not take this board, it is to weak even for low level audio. The 30W output come with 10% distortion, 60W is not realistic, only if you accept tons of distortion and use a speaker with 2 Ohm..
For a few $ more you get the Dayton Audio KABD-4100 with 4x100W which wil deliver what you expect.
A 150watt SMPS should be enough, if you do not play very loud or plan to extend the bass with the DSP.
For normal music you need much less input from the power supply than the speaker will see as "program power". Constant 200W form the PS may be enough for 500W of program power.
So if a 4x100W amp is in reality only a 4x50W RMS amp and you play musik, not sine waves, you should be fine with a good 150W SMPS.
On the other hand, with cheap SMPS comes the China factor: The 250W unit may only be able to deliver such power for half a second, constant power will be much lower. This miraculously works together: The 400 W amp has only 180W power demand and the 300W China SMPS gives only continuous 150W...
For a few $ more you get the Dayton Audio KABD-4100 with 4x100W which wil deliver what you expect.
A 150watt SMPS should be enough, if you do not play very loud or plan to extend the bass with the DSP.
For normal music you need much less input from the power supply than the speaker will see as "program power". Constant 200W form the PS may be enough for 500W of program power.
So if a 4x100W amp is in reality only a 4x50W RMS amp and you play musik, not sine waves, you should be fine with a good 150W SMPS.
On the other hand, with cheap SMPS comes the China factor: The 250W unit may only be able to deliver such power for half a second, constant power will be much lower. This miraculously works together: The 400 W amp has only 180W power demand and the 300W China SMPS gives only continuous 150W...
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Thanks for your reply!
Yes, the KABD-4100 or the Wondom JAB5 (same board) was my other alternative, but the active cooling is a bummer.
I will go with that and a 200W SMPS, above that they need active cooling.
Was will not be extended with the DSP, in fact I think I will high pass above 80-90Hz. If I get 2x 50W + 1x100W KABD-4100 I am good to go.
Cheers
This is the only place I've seen anyone say this about this amp board. Can you tell me where you got this information? I'm interested in the KABD-430. Thank you.
- Claim: "Efficient 4 x 30W of power from the two TPA3118 amp chips delivers clean powerful signal for creating up to 4-channel audio projects"
- read the datasheet of the TDA chip
- https://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/tpa3118d2
- Output power depends on load resistance and power supply voltage
- For HIFI you try to stay well below 1% distortion, typical 0.1%
- Claimed power is at 10% distortion, which is not compatible with any HIFI quality use
I just found out that the KABD-4100 (4x100w) can be powered by battery, however their Lithium Battery Charger Board/Modules apparently have an unacceptable issue of significant battery drain while not in use. Is there another option for powering the KABD-4100 with batteries?
Yes, if amp is no good, then SMPS doesn't matter.
Yes, China smps with China amp gives 300 Chinese watts !!
Manufacturers specify the chip's datasheet specs which is the best possible case. Inferior board design and components (cheap inductors and caps) can significantly degrade actual performance. As an example, I measured the Sure/Wondom JAB5 distortion at various power levels. I used the Meanwell LRS-350-36 (36V, 9.7 A, 350 W). I did use 4 ohm loads instead of the specified 6 ohms. In ay case, note that my 5W measurement matches what Sure published.
In some of the data sheet of the JAB-5 Sure writes the amp is a "TDA749x".
Which makes one suggest it is the ST "TDA7498e", because it is specified for 4 Ohm use at 36V. What not so many may know, the "x" Sure uses, includes a whole family of ST TDA amps, beginning with the TDA7481 at 2x10W! Which may explain your distortion figures.
I use some cheap 2 channel versions (not Sure!) of the real 7498e and this is an excellent D-chip amp. I'm quite sure it doesn't have any distortion problems.
This is from the data sheet, 4 Ohm, 36 Volt.
Wondom / Sure is primary a company selling speaker for vending machines, kiosks and and other low fi applications. They don't have any high end roots.
I bought some of their products and can not say I'm impressed. Prices are quite high, too. I avoid anything they do. Maybe useable for a boom box or the like.
Which makes one suggest it is the ST "TDA7498e", because it is specified for 4 Ohm use at 36V. What not so many may know, the "x" Sure uses, includes a whole family of ST TDA amps, beginning with the TDA7481 at 2x10W! Which may explain your distortion figures.
I use some cheap 2 channel versions (not Sure!) of the real 7498e and this is an excellent D-chip amp. I'm quite sure it doesn't have any distortion problems.
This is from the data sheet, 4 Ohm, 36 Volt.
Wondom / Sure is primary a company selling speaker for vending machines, kiosks and and other low fi applications. They don't have any high end roots.
I bought some of their products and can not say I'm impressed. Prices are quite high, too. I avoid anything they do. Maybe useable for a boom box or the like.
Attachments
Most interesting.
Please, can you give a link to the cheap two-channel Class-D amps you would recommend, and, the nice thing about the Wondon is that it includes a DSP for crossover: do you have a DSP you would recommend?
Thanks,
Jamme.
I'm not @Turbowatch2, but I suggest you check out TinySine (LINK) products. In my tests they out performed the Sure/Wondom/Parts Express boards.
I had never come across these before. They also seem to be easier to program than the Wondom stuff. ....... I just have to get them into the UK.
Thank you so much.
Jamme.
IMO if you are into quality HIFI, you should be very carefull with Wondom, Sure and Tinysine. The last one is quite expensive, but not better. Much too expensive, if you ask me. Customer service is equal to none.
These boards seem to be simple solutions for "all in one", but read about them and you see all the problems they have, if you want home HIFI. In a Kiosk or vending machine some buzz, hum and noise don't care, but you don't want that at home.
If you can specify what you want, it is simpler to give an advice. For example if you want a nice active two way, consider buying two Aiyima a07 tpa3255 amps, a DSP (Thomann, Dayton Audio), a solid power supply and some wires. Don't waste your time on raw amp modules. At the time you have build them inside some metall case (if you don't want to emit more EMI dirt than a Russian GPS jammer) you have spent a whole lot more money. DIYS building something that is concidered decent is expensive. Think of all the conectors, wires and small parts you have to source with expensive P&P. You got to calculate to the end!
The DSP thing has a catch. It is no app, but needs complicated programing with the mighty "Sigma Studio". You can not simply change some parameter, you need to install an interface to your PC and try to get into the DSP, set to programing mode. If you like that, go on.
Normaly you use this once for programing a prototype you later have produced in large numbers. Not for end user like us.
I advice to buy an DSP with a clean user interface you start on your PC, connect by USB and change settings on the fly. That is what the usual DIYS person wants. This will cost you about 120€ instead of the Wondom/ Tiny Sine DSP stuff which ends up around 60€ for some modules, interface, all without a case and connectors. These extra expense of maybe 60-100€ for a cased DSP will save you the fun in DIYS. Trust me...
PS there is some app that you can use on your phone for the Tinysine stuff. It only works with a few of their products, not all that say DSP. Read very carefull before buying. Some apps have been anounced to be release soon, that was 3 years ago. Do not trust any promise from these sellers.
These boards seem to be simple solutions for "all in one", but read about them and you see all the problems they have, if you want home HIFI. In a Kiosk or vending machine some buzz, hum and noise don't care, but you don't want that at home.
If you can specify what you want, it is simpler to give an advice. For example if you want a nice active two way, consider buying two Aiyima a07 tpa3255 amps, a DSP (Thomann, Dayton Audio), a solid power supply and some wires. Don't waste your time on raw amp modules. At the time you have build them inside some metall case (if you don't want to emit more EMI dirt than a Russian GPS jammer) you have spent a whole lot more money. DIYS building something that is concidered decent is expensive. Think of all the conectors, wires and small parts you have to source with expensive P&P. You got to calculate to the end!
The DSP thing has a catch. It is no app, but needs complicated programing with the mighty "Sigma Studio". You can not simply change some parameter, you need to install an interface to your PC and try to get into the DSP, set to programing mode. If you like that, go on.
Normaly you use this once for programing a prototype you later have produced in large numbers. Not for end user like us.
I advice to buy an DSP with a clean user interface you start on your PC, connect by USB and change settings on the fly. That is what the usual DIYS person wants. This will cost you about 120€ instead of the Wondom/ Tiny Sine DSP stuff which ends up around 60€ for some modules, interface, all without a case and connectors. These extra expense of maybe 60-100€ for a cased DSP will save you the fun in DIYS. Trust me...
PS there is some app that you can use on your phone for the Tinysine stuff. It only works with a few of their products, not all that say DSP. Read very carefull before buying. Some apps have been anounced to be release soon, that was 3 years ago. Do not trust any promise from these sellers.
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@mga2009 I want to preface my replay and say that I am not an audiophile, just an avid DIY audio enthusiast. I have used a lot of DIY-friendly amps in my projects such as Wondom/Sure Electronics/Dayton Audio (all of which are designed and/or built by Sure Electronics) and TinySine. I think the Sure/etc. amps are great for what they are. I definitely wouldn’t consider them HiFi, but they are far superior to your average Amazon/Ebay/AliExpress budget amplifier boards though. I use them to build Bluetooth speakers and they sound great to me. The only problem I have with the Sure/etc. is their Bluetooth application. The QCC3034 chips they use are USB-locked and cannot be customized/configured.
As for TinySine, I haven’t used any of their amps yet, but I have been working a lot with their Bluetooth modules and they are fantastic. TinySine is much more DIY-friendly in terms of customization/configuration of their CSR/QCC (Qualcomm) Bluetooth modules. Their customer service has been very responsive to emails and they are quick to share their resources. I do intend on giving their amps a shot in my next project.
Both Sure/etc. and TinySine have amplifiers with embedded ADAU1701 chips and standalone ADAU1701 preamps available. The ADAU1701 is a very powerful DSP in my opinion. The learning curve for SigmaStudio is a bit steep at first, but once you get the hang of it, it’s very simple to put a project together. You can modify the audio channel routing, gain, EQ, add digital crossovers, etc. The possibilities are truly endless. I know there is also an option to use I2S audio output from the ADAU1701 as well, but I haven’t attempted this on my own. If you do end up going with a Sure/etc. or TinySine option with the ADAU1701, I’d be happy to help you get a SigmaStudio project put together.
Cheers!
As for TinySine, I haven’t used any of their amps yet, but I have been working a lot with their Bluetooth modules and they are fantastic. TinySine is much more DIY-friendly in terms of customization/configuration of their CSR/QCC (Qualcomm) Bluetooth modules. Their customer service has been very responsive to emails and they are quick to share their resources. I do intend on giving their amps a shot in my next project.
Both Sure/etc. and TinySine have amplifiers with embedded ADAU1701 chips and standalone ADAU1701 preamps available. The ADAU1701 is a very powerful DSP in my opinion. The learning curve for SigmaStudio is a bit steep at first, but once you get the hang of it, it’s very simple to put a project together. You can modify the audio channel routing, gain, EQ, add digital crossovers, etc. The possibilities are truly endless. I know there is also an option to use I2S audio output from the ADAU1701 as well, but I haven’t attempted this on my own. If you do end up going with a Sure/etc. or TinySine option with the ADAU1701, I’d be happy to help you get a SigmaStudio project put together.
Cheers!