I worked for Alan Hill from '77 to '90 and was given a pair of Plasmatronics Hill Type I speakers as a wedding present in 1980. I have resurrected my Hill type I plasma tweeters and added new 6" mids and a 12" subwoofer to them. All of the plasma support electronics had to be redesigned by me (original tubes and power supplies are extinct). I would like to show them at AXPONA 2023 as an homage to Alan and his amazing creation. It was suggested to me that I start a Go Fund Me campaign to offset the cost of show rental space (and Helium!). I am wondering if enough people would be interested to hear these wonderful tweeters.
I personally would like to Build a set let alone Hear Them !!! 😉
After all this DIY Audio, I have already Mastered the Secrets of the ESL's........
Plasma Speakers are My Next Adventure !! He,he,he 😀
Cheers !!
jer 🙂
After all this DIY Audio, I have already Mastered the Secrets of the ESL's........
Plasma Speakers are My Next Adventure !! He,he,he 😀
Cheers !!
jer 🙂
That's a decent copy of the original 'hearth' design. Nice work.👍 Plugging the bottom with ceramic wool would help with stability and Helium usage.
What voltage did you use to strike the discharge?
What voltage did you use to strike the discharge?
Does it have to be helium? . . due to the density or other? Various mixes of carbon dioxide and argon are used in MIG and TIG (is the latter even still done?) welding. If the higher density doesn't ruin performance, it would be in a lot less of a hurry trying to escape. 😉
Would an automotive or motorcycle ignition coil zap or two help strike the arc?
Best Regards
Would an automotive or motorcycle ignition coil zap or two help strike the arc?
Best Regards
TIG (more correctly GTAW) is most certainly still done extensively both by industry and home hobby folks like myself. My first TIG machine was a 200 amp monster the size of a stacked domestic washer and dryer. My current mulit-process (tig being one mode) machine is fully programmable 200A SMPS not much larger than a lunch box..... seriously!
That aside I had dinner with Alan Hill a number of years ago and we eventually got away from the DoE stuff that he was acturally more famous for and chatted about the Plasmatronic speaker. Alan proceeded to scribble drawings on every piece of paper in the restaurant, outligning how to make the whole affair more efficient. I've forgotten what little I grasped, other than he had a critical orfice for the gas and a swirl cup feeding a carefully shaped horn. Gas flow would be reduced, so he claimed by half.
That aside, baloon / party grade He is perfectly fine, you don't need welding / medical grade He for the speakers That is a huge $ savings
That aside I had dinner with Alan Hill a number of years ago and we eventually got away from the DoE stuff that he was acturally more famous for and chatted about the Plasmatronic speaker. Alan proceeded to scribble drawings on every piece of paper in the restaurant, outligning how to make the whole affair more efficient. I've forgotten what little I grasped, other than he had a critical orfice for the gas and a swirl cup feeding a carefully shaped horn. Gas flow would be reduced, so he claimed by half.
That aside, baloon / party grade He is perfectly fine, you don't need welding / medical grade He for the speakers That is a huge $ savings
Balloon grade helium comes for the same source as welding grade, but the welding tanks are purged before filling. This ensures no contamination of the gas. The plasma speakers have been known to be unstable with enough impurities (no data on what was in the those tanks). Buying balloon grade is thus a roll of the dice.
Argon, like Helium, is a noble gas, but is plentiful and much less expensive. It's ionization energy is much lower than He and its specific heat is also different. These and other factors make it unsuitable for the Hill type I tweeter.
Is no one interested in hearing them at AXPONA 2023?
Argon, like Helium, is a noble gas, but is plentiful and much less expensive. It's ionization energy is much lower than He and its specific heat is also different. These and other factors make it unsuitable for the Hill type I tweeter.
Is no one interested in hearing them at AXPONA 2023?
Man, So close to me, I am only in Jackson Michigan, Can't travel that far at this time............
It Really would be Sweet to see and hear them in action !!! 🙂
Cheers !! 😀
jer 🙂
P.S. Ooops, Missed the date, it is next year, Maybe I can make it then, Ya never know ?!!!! 😉
😀
It Really would be Sweet to see and hear them in action !!! 🙂
Cheers !! 😀
jer 🙂
P.S. Ooops, Missed the date, it is next year, Maybe I can make it then, Ya never know ?!!!! 😉
😀
I do plan to show them next April. The fees for a room are pretty steep so I am forced to start a GoFundMe page to offset that cost as well as the cost of renting a full tank of Helium for just that weekend. I just had a dealer friend from Chicago (Superior Audio) come to my place for some serious listening and he said the the plasma tweeter is still unrivaled.
So how do you demonstrate tweeters?
I still have a clear recollection of the night (in 1968, I think) when a buddy from Bell Labs demo'ed DuKane Ionovacs for me. Wow,
But I was fooled, I realize this afternoon. I tested some Fostex ribbons a year ago and they were astonishing for FR and distortion, prior to installation.
So what impressed me with the Ionovacs? Just set real loud? Blue glow? Or just compared to other tweeters at the time (unlikely dramatically inferior to the Fostex ribbons).
Now and then I "listen" to my 3500 Hz XO tweeters playing alone when fooling with my system. Not much there. But enough to make many recordings sound deficient in their absence.
B.
I still have a clear recollection of the night (in 1968, I think) when a buddy from Bell Labs demo'ed DuKane Ionovacs for me. Wow,
But I was fooled, I realize this afternoon. I tested some Fostex ribbons a year ago and they were astonishing for FR and distortion, prior to installation.
So what impressed me with the Ionovacs? Just set real loud? Blue glow? Or just compared to other tweeters at the time (unlikely dramatically inferior to the Fostex ribbons).
Now and then I "listen" to my 3500 Hz XO tweeters playing alone when fooling with my system. Not much there. But enough to make many recordings sound deficient in their absence.
B.
The Ionovac tweeter only goes down to ~4kHz; the Hill Type I tweeter goes down to ~1kHz - it is not horn loaded either.
I will of course be demonstrating the tweeters with mid-range drivers and sub-woofers, but the obvious attraction is the tweeter.
![PXL_20220818_234429926[1].jpg](https://www.diyaudio.com/community/data/attachments/991/991790-d5c77744a93af1cb46de3d8ead19167b.jpg?hash=1cd3RKk68c "PXL_20220818_234429926[1].jpg")
I will of course be demonstrating the tweeters with mid-range drivers and sub-woofers, but the obvious attraction is the tweeter.
Thanks for clarification.
Playing from 1 kHz and up, that's a sizeable portion of the audible spectrum being handled by a potentially super-good transducer. But again, it is a range handled today by other pretty good transducers. So how to demonstrate its superiority, esp in the context of an audio show?
That is a very deep question and deserves a whole book to explore demo concepts. Actually relates to my prior profession ("day job").
First best quick suggestion: pair the plasma speakers with identical speakers but with a different tweeter and switch between the two as a recording plays. All behind a scrim cloth, of course. Pair should be matched in all ways possible, which might mean just EQ.*
The hardest challenge I know for tweeters is Brahms' Lullaby for young girls choir. No kidding. The singers produce enormous instantaneous peaks as their waves add and subtract. Well, at least it is Brahms.
B.
* Is it meaningful to wonder if paired in ALL ways known to present day civilization, would all pairs sound identical? Or would that show we do not know all the relevant parameters of sound reproduction?
Playing from 1 kHz and up, that's a sizeable portion of the audible spectrum being handled by a potentially super-good transducer. But again, it is a range handled today by other pretty good transducers. So how to demonstrate its superiority, esp in the context of an audio show?
That is a very deep question and deserves a whole book to explore demo concepts. Actually relates to my prior profession ("day job").
First best quick suggestion: pair the plasma speakers with identical speakers but with a different tweeter and switch between the two as a recording plays. All behind a scrim cloth, of course. Pair should be matched in all ways possible, which might mean just EQ.*
The hardest challenge I know for tweeters is Brahms' Lullaby for young girls choir. No kidding. The singers produce enormous instantaneous peaks as their waves add and subtract. Well, at least it is Brahms.
B.
* Is it meaningful to wonder if paired in ALL ways known to present day civilization, would all pairs sound identical? Or would that show we do not know all the relevant parameters of sound reproduction?
As I said earlier. The High-end audio dealer says there still is no equal to this plasma driver - he should know. This is why I want to show it at AXPONA. This is your chance to hear it.
I good one is here, along with a photo of Alan Hill's setup. Please excuse the fact that it's a fund raiser to be able to take it to AXPONA - the room rental fee is stiff.
https://gofund.me/be87f42b
https://gofund.me/be87f42b
Can you name some? I am aware of the Ionovac and Magnat tweeters from decades ago, but I have not heard of anything commercially viable since then.
Off the top of my head only Lansche, cause they exhibit at the Munich show and i've heard them many times.
It's obviously hard to separate the tweeter sound in a large and complex speaker, but their room has never impressed me with anything but loudness.
It's obviously hard to separate the tweeter sound in a large and complex speaker, but their room has never impressed me with anything but loudness.
Completely different operating principle to all other plasma tweeters on the market. The Hills use a DC glow discharge (c.f. a noisy RF Corona discharge) and extend almost a decade lower. Never been lucky enough to hear them but would be astonished if they weren't clearly superior in every way... Other than the gas tank, of course.
Years ago got some laser drilled tungsten and alumina to try MHCD (microhollow cathode discharge) ie glow discharge without He but concerns about lifetime of electrodes and little things like littluns showing up mean it's now a retirement project....
Years ago got some laser drilled tungsten and alumina to try MHCD (microhollow cathode discharge) ie glow discharge without He but concerns about lifetime of electrodes and little things like littluns showing up mean it's now a retirement project....