I own a pair of Carrera bookshelf speakers with upgraded xover parts, in great cabinets.
But i have the urge to buy another 2 way kit and build. I'd like something reasonably better, if it exists. Open to suggestions for my next project.
But i have the urge to buy another 2 way kit and build. I'd like something reasonably better, if it exists. Open to suggestions for my next project.
If you want to try something in the same size and price range as the Carreras and with comparable quality drivers, you might want to look at the Jeff Bagby's Mandolin 2 or Adelphos.
Going slightly larger there is his Kairos. Or the SB Acoustics ARA.
And then for a little more money you can build Dennis Murphy's Philharmonic BMR.
But whether any of these is really better than Carreras only you can answer.
Going slightly larger there is his Kairos. Or the SB Acoustics ARA.
And then for a little more money you can build Dennis Murphy's Philharmonic BMR.
But whether any of these is really better than Carreras only you can answer.
Good points. I'm not trying for a little better. But a considerable jump up. Money is not a factor, as i was looking at Klang Ton for a moment.
Size is not a factor. I just want a two way. I'd assume something with the RAAL xr7020 may just be as good as two ways get.
Any designs using the 7" rev, or Accuton woofers in a kit?
Size is not a factor. I just want a two way. I'd assume something with the RAAL xr7020 may just be as good as two ways get.
Any designs using the 7" rev, or Accuton woofers in a kit?
I can't be of much help with larger size drivers. Have not been considering those. You might want to look at some of the Criton designs in that category.
Dennis Murphy's Philharmonic BMR uses a RAAL tweeter.
If size is not a problem this thread uses a 15" woofer + a CD horn: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/asathor-a-jbl-4367-clone.367215/latest
I would never put up with bookshelf speakers. My own performance includes fake (interference) 26 hz on piano & 32 hz on Hammond organ plus 64 hz bassoon, so 200 hz bookshelf speaker AR's when I was 19 I relegated to the Simon & Garfunkle fans.
I couldn't find actual jbl4367 on the used market except in a theater set of 8 with four 18" subwoofers, 1200 miles away. $4500. I did find the next best thing, a pair of Peavey SP2(2004) $400 the pair, 130 miles away. They are +-3 db 54 hz to 17.5 khz, and Harmonic Distortion 20 db down from 5 W response to 12 khz. I can't hear above 14 khz anyway; Army Vet. I listen to them at 1/8 to 50 w in a 14'x11'x33' room. They can sound very like a piano, which I find rare in speakers. I own a Steinway console as calibrator in the next room. Room effects boost the 25 to 50 hz response to -10 db from 54 hz response. 6 db down response 90 deg Hori 40 deg Vert which means I can walk around the room without the sound becoming different. Mine are mounted on poles at the top of the room since the highs project down at my head. Beware the current SP2: power handling is upped 100% to 1000w and distortion and dispersion specs have been removed.
Before I found the SP2(2004) I was trying to replace stolen Peavey SP2-XT in ugly home built cabinets. Since the originals were so attractive to the burglar. Eminence Delta-Pro-15A woofers, vented, Peavey Rx22 drivers (used) on used Peavey horns. I only have one RX22, the other used driver is an A. I've since started lusting after the Eminence 1.4" CD driver N314X-8 or N314T-8. The X is high tech diaphragm, but I don't need extreme power handling in my music room. The eminence products require a bolt on horn, which I haven't found with a 7"x14" version yet.
One goal is building a cabinet <50 lb, since I am too small & old to put the 82 lb SP2(2004) on the speaker stands. Nobody I can hire for <$350 for 3 hour minimum will lift them either. I think I'm going to separate the horn assembly and make it a screw on accessory I can add after the woofers are on the stand. Passive crossovers can be outside the woofer box, too. Crossover testing will be done with 2 $60 analog 31 band stereo graphic equalizers and 2 $100 stereo amps (used, refurbished). Testing outside on my 2/3 acre lot which is quiet sometimes at night.
I would never put up with bookshelf speakers. My own performance includes fake (interference) 26 hz on piano & 32 hz on Hammond organ plus 64 hz bassoon, so 200 hz bookshelf speaker AR's when I was 19 I relegated to the Simon & Garfunkle fans.
I couldn't find actual jbl4367 on the used market except in a theater set of 8 with four 18" subwoofers, 1200 miles away. $4500. I did find the next best thing, a pair of Peavey SP2(2004) $400 the pair, 130 miles away. They are +-3 db 54 hz to 17.5 khz, and Harmonic Distortion 20 db down from 5 W response to 12 khz. I can't hear above 14 khz anyway; Army Vet. I listen to them at 1/8 to 50 w in a 14'x11'x33' room. They can sound very like a piano, which I find rare in speakers. I own a Steinway console as calibrator in the next room. Room effects boost the 25 to 50 hz response to -10 db from 54 hz response. 6 db down response 90 deg Hori 40 deg Vert which means I can walk around the room without the sound becoming different. Mine are mounted on poles at the top of the room since the highs project down at my head. Beware the current SP2: power handling is upped 100% to 1000w and distortion and dispersion specs have been removed.
Before I found the SP2(2004) I was trying to replace stolen Peavey SP2-XT in ugly home built cabinets. Since the originals were so attractive to the burglar. Eminence Delta-Pro-15A woofers, vented, Peavey Rx22 drivers (used) on used Peavey horns. I only have one RX22, the other used driver is an A. I've since started lusting after the Eminence 1.4" CD driver N314X-8 or N314T-8. The X is high tech diaphragm, but I don't need extreme power handling in my music room. The eminence products require a bolt on horn, which I haven't found with a 7"x14" version yet.
One goal is building a cabinet <50 lb, since I am too small & old to put the 82 lb SP2(2004) on the speaker stands. Nobody I can hire for <$350 for 3 hour minimum will lift them either. I think I'm going to separate the horn assembly and make it a screw on accessory I can add after the woofers are on the stand. Passive crossovers can be outside the woofer box, too. Crossover testing will be done with 2 $60 analog 31 band stereo graphic equalizers and 2 $100 stereo amps (used, refurbished). Testing outside on my 2/3 acre lot which is quiet sometimes at night.
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The Rev 15W/8530K00 is a marvel, and a stunning performer. It has set a benchmark in both commercial and DIY circles for decades with good reason. It's worth every penny!
I haven’t heard the Carreras even though I always wanted to build one because I am a huge fan of the drivers. But I have a Zaphaudio ZD5 and an Ellis 1801B as well as a Jern 14EH with the Hiquphon. So I could say I have experience with their character.
if I were you I would go two ways - I would make a seriously elaborate cabinet with a different shape keeping the front baffle dimensions the same, my ZD5 is a translam box with the same volume and face dimensions. Nowadays I would do something from Corian or the likes, B&W shaped cabinet for example. We usually underestimate how important the box is for the final results and there is a lot to be gained in that direction.
if you do need something different and substantially better try a design with the Purifi driver. I am using a Joachim Gerhard collection Surveyor and it is simply on another level, the mid bass is unreal in its capabilities and the Viawave is the first ribbon that sounds meaty as the Hiq yet has all the transparency in the world. Joachim says it is one of the best tweeters on the planet and has probably heard everything there is and then some.
Or in a really sideways move you could look at the Danley Studio 1, I have never heard it and there is no way I can say I have seen anything like it so I can’t even suggest what it would sound like but I am so interested in his ideas that I ordered the Studio 2 🙂 After more than 30 years of speaker building…
if I were you I would go two ways - I would make a seriously elaborate cabinet with a different shape keeping the front baffle dimensions the same, my ZD5 is a translam box with the same volume and face dimensions. Nowadays I would do something from Corian or the likes, B&W shaped cabinet for example. We usually underestimate how important the box is for the final results and there is a lot to be gained in that direction.
if you do need something different and substantially better try a design with the Purifi driver. I am using a Joachim Gerhard collection Surveyor and it is simply on another level, the mid bass is unreal in its capabilities and the Viawave is the first ribbon that sounds meaty as the Hiq yet has all the transparency in the world. Joachim says it is one of the best tweeters on the planet and has probably heard everything there is and then some.
Or in a really sideways move you could look at the Danley Studio 1, I have never heard it and there is no way I can say I have seen anything like it so I can’t even suggest what it would sound like but I am so interested in his ideas that I ordered the Studio 2 🙂 After more than 30 years of speaker building…
Well, yes camplo.. but there is a common misunderstanding surrounding this. Properly reducing the problems that get in the way of resolution also increases listenability.
However there is another 'resolution', a fake resolution where a typical speaker is voiced to take the focus off some of the issues, in cases where acoustic flaws are not going to be fixed.. but you can be left with a fatiguing speaker to listen to.
However there is another 'resolution', a fake resolution where a typical speaker is voiced to take the focus off some of the issues, in cases where acoustic flaws are not going to be fixed.. but you can be left with a fatiguing speaker to listen to.
Add two subwoofers with active amplification and DSP EQ - get someone - if you can't yourself - to tune it in. Subwoofers have been one of the best upgrades I could ever make in my system. You will get a much more linear foundation in the music, with added dynamics and thumb to the sound. Further - if done right - you will get bass that does not change much as you move around the room - which is impossible with two speakers. Getting the bass right, actually clears up the midrange and tweeter too, because of the less masking.
Paper cones from SS has mostly been a bit of annoyance for me. They seem to try and play both bass and midrange.... a compromise in both areas. So if you want added clarity in the upper midrange - I found the Textreme from SB to be better. It's still smooth to work with.
Waveguided tweeters to get a more even power response along with a lower cross over point, might give you more clarity too, especially when put on a bookshelf, where "stuff" is in the way, so to say.
Paper cones from SS has mostly been a bit of annoyance for me. They seem to try and play both bass and midrange.... a compromise in both areas. So if you want added clarity in the upper midrange - I found the Textreme from SB to be better. It's still smooth to work with.
Waveguided tweeters to get a more even power response along with a lower cross over point, might give you more clarity too, especially when put on a bookshelf, where "stuff" is in the way, so to say.
He wrote that money is not a factor - so put the pedal to the metal 😉 Get someone to build nice cabinets that fit with Purifi and maybe a Seas DXT or SB Textreme. Then add subwoofers - all active and dialed in to the room.
Maybe Fusion amps or the Top from MiniDSP with Purifi multi channel amps.
Simply skip DIY and buy Kii3 or D&D C8 😊
@digitalthor if money no object then I agree, Purifi plus Viawave/SB29BN/Bliesma T34B and a Hypex 502 plate amp should be pretty epic. Add that to a nice Kef 201/2 type teardrop cabinet, even copying the upward facing port.
The other alternative is the Transmission line Book shelf speakers by @xrk971 detailed on this forum using the Purifi plus the Raal tweeter (if you can find them) and Harsch scrossover again with a Hypex plate amp would again be pretty special.
The other alternative is the Transmission line Book shelf speakers by @xrk971 detailed on this forum using the Purifi plus the Raal tweeter (if you can find them) and Harsch scrossover again with a Hypex plate amp would again be pretty special.
It may appear so, but it's misleading if you haven't done the work to know what is and isn't audible.
I don't know how a design could feign resolution....the first guess I'd have is one that is pushing to hard to achieve a flat Fr when the natural Fr is far from it? Any design that needs deep and sharp filters to achieve a smooth FR maybe? Or trying to extend Fr lower at the sacrifice of SQ.... not sure.
Poor mans m2....is "better"...you never gave a set of criteria on size... and then my next thought would be the connection between size and sound quality that we cannot escape....once you've done an awesome job, for the size....there is nothing left....there is no reason to try anything else...If Bookshelf is the focus...
I would start by looking for "Flaws" ....purposely put into quotes... basically look for things to improve even if it is a side step, rather...to some... and if this design is thorough than there may be a reason the edges aren't treated?
So, my first thought, looking at this picture is.... The edges aren't optimized and potentially a bigger waveguide could be used to create a better polar match?
Passive Cardioid? You up for that?
If you can increase the woofer size...thats a plus. this is a rear ported design?....You could turn it into sealed 3 way with the low end taken care of by another woofer(s) on the back side or side...
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