Whats the difference? I tend to think they're similar in parameters. Similar xmax, magnet size and so forth. Do they also sound similar?
What do you mean saying "pro woofer"?
Real professional woofers are made out of best available materials, they have very strong and heavy magnet structures, large voice coils, strong suspensions, large linear Xmax, very low distortion figures and can be driven heavily at high power levels 24/7. And they really kick and makes your trousers flapping!
Typical vintage woofers had none of these.
Real professional woofers are made out of best available materials, they have very strong and heavy magnet structures, large voice coils, strong suspensions, large linear Xmax, very low distortion figures and can be driven heavily at high power levels 24/7. And they really kick and makes your trousers flapping!
Typical vintage woofers had none of these.
I mean the cheaper lighter, more run of the mill ones of course, like those with stamped steel baskets and smaller voice coils and magnets. Not the really heavy duty ones of course!! Thanks for the reply!!
I have a collection of woofers from 50's & 60's built into hammond & wurlitzer organs. Steel baskets. 15" watt limit 35 on the hammonds, 18 on the wullitzers. Magnet material not as sophisticated as today, even leaving out neodynium. 8 ohms universally, magnets were not capable of 4 ohms then. Rubber surrounds, paper cones. 15" went down to 32 hz in huge bass reflex chambers. Pro quality, do still work 60 years later. The pros using them were funeral homes.
The magnets from 40's hammond organs didn't even exist. They used electromagnets for the field. Alnico made affordable by military use in WWII was a wonder material in 1950.
The magnets from 40's hammond organs didn't even exist. They used electromagnets for the field. Alnico made affordable by military use in WWII was a wonder material in 1950.
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Oh, that's what you meant. Generally they're not all that great quality and I wouldn't bother with them. I made the assumption you were talking about Altec, Emilar etc.
Excuse me?! The pioneer's designs define these attributes with the only variable being their severe [peak amp] power limitations, so today's drivers are in no way better than having much higher power performance and all that implies due to advancement in materials, manufacturing over the decades that allows them to be [much] cheaper than the pioneer's when accounting for inflation.
No doubt lots of steel framed drivers inside some respected speakers in the past and none the worse for it.
In an effort to be the first to post something useful and true in this thread, "Pro" means drivers which the manufacturer thinks would appeal to professional audio (not home HiFi) applications. Nothing more or less. As far as I can see, that prioritizes"durable" and "withstands abuse" rather than prioritizing anything this forum would call "sound quality".
Another term used is "consumer" which means mass-produced stuff that does not aspire to high quality or elite customers. Again, not anything this forum calls "sound quality",
Those are not typical home HiFi priorities.
Can't say as I have any clear definition of "vintage" except that OP seems to think it means any old item at the Salvation Army recycle store whether originally aspiring to quality or just plain consumer garbage.
B.
In an effort to be the first to post something useful and true in this thread, "Pro" means drivers which the manufacturer thinks would appeal to professional audio (not home HiFi) applications. Nothing more or less. As far as I can see, that prioritizes"durable" and "withstands abuse" rather than prioritizing anything this forum would call "sound quality".
Another term used is "consumer" which means mass-produced stuff that does not aspire to high quality or elite customers. Again, not anything this forum calls "sound quality",
Those are not typical home HiFi priorities.
Can't say as I have any clear definition of "vintage" except that OP seems to think it means any old item at the Salvation Army recycle store whether originally aspiring to quality or just plain consumer garbage.
B.
Lol Gm, let me handle the light weight....
it seems some people have not tapped into the art of designing for sound quality.
The pro driver market is the leading edge of Sound Quality...Pro does included Studio, in my eyes...the Jbl M2 woofer is a "pro" driver....
Since my training here, hifi sounds like the genre of people still under the influence of marketing...
Pro drivers that are and not in Studio designs are striving to create SQ at extreme performance aka excursion...which leads to the high quality parts...domestic level, high fidelity, is not extreme performance...its a Sunday drive more like it....
Theyve generated a market to sell the less enlightened, small inefficient drivers that strive for extreme performance out of a Bad situation for sound quality ie small enclosures and small drivers
Pro Drivers are striving to reach high efficiency...the signal either turns to sound or distortion...efficiency turns out to be an indicator for SQ...kinda like Low Le can be an indicator of build quality
It seems that the pro drivers today are based around the knowledge base generated from the old days. So the best of the vintage drivers are the basis of todays best pro drivers...
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Since mid priced 12" or 15" pro woofers have similar xmax to vintage 12 or 15s(example vintage jbl hifi speakers of the 70s or 80s), I just wanted to make a comparison. I feel that with the correct pro woofer, mid range and tweeter you can emulate the sound of certain vintage speakers. How correct is my idea? By the way with the cheaper pro woofers,horns etc, I wonder whether they can be used to design a speaker similar to those old 70s Sansui japanese speakers with lots of drivers, I think it would be a fun!!
Probably hundreds of woofers we could talk about.
Narrowed down to a apple to apple comparison
When you say Pro Woofer, assuming Pro Audio type woofer from
Musical Instrument combo, or Live sound PA system?
Comparing Budget Stamp steels from 60's and 70's
To a budget stamp steel now.
Slightly better cone material composites found in newer speakers.
And thermal ratings of voice coil material and glues.
Comparing say a Eminence stamp steel Beta or Gamma from the 80's , 90s
to modern Eminence stamp Steel. about the same.
You would have to be careful comparing Xmax
because previous methods assumed height of gap, height of coil.
Where many modern ratings are laser measured.
which tend to add slightly more distance compared to gap height/coil equation.
So a old 5mm xmax compared to new 5mm xmax.
the older xmax could measure even higher with laser method
Narrowed down to a apple to apple comparison
When you say Pro Woofer, assuming Pro Audio type woofer from
Musical Instrument combo, or Live sound PA system?
Comparing Budget Stamp steels from 60's and 70's
To a budget stamp steel now.
Slightly better cone material composites found in newer speakers.
And thermal ratings of voice coil material and glues.
Comparing say a Eminence stamp steel Beta or Gamma from the 80's , 90s
to modern Eminence stamp Steel. about the same.
You would have to be careful comparing Xmax
because previous methods assumed height of gap, height of coil.
Where many modern ratings are laser measured.
which tend to add slightly more distance compared to gap height/coil equation.
So a old 5mm xmax compared to new 5mm xmax.
the older xmax could measure even higher with laser method
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Studio monitors are included in pro design...its just that studio has a "hifi section" called mix monitors...
low efficiency woofers disguised as "high sound quality" also lives in the studio section...so I have to be careful how I label Pro drivers with inclusion of the studio genre...
Im famous for using dictionary terms over Jargon...figure me.
Buying inefficient drivers/systems thinking one has achieved the apex of sound quality...is a stance...widely "used" by others...now that is, a pity
I have no problem with your definition.
In many cases, the modern drivers are far more linear in their response the further they move from rest compared to older drivers. Xmax has a number of definitions.
In my impression, the woofers from the same era sound more similar than the woofers from different era that share the similar numbers on the papers, when the frequency response is matched.