Working from the target of 0.7*Fs, I came up with this. Target is a large box that can play to 17hz. Appreciate any feedback. Amp is the Dayton 250W DSP plate amp.
Driver is the Dayton RSS265HF-8 10"
Driver is the Dayton RSS265HF-8 10"
Wow, you get that way down low. Are you sure you don’t have a issue with your air speed at the last 66 cm?
I have a few of these down in the 20s in ODMLTL and they work good. I’d be cool if you could manage that 17 hz? But definitely check your air particle velocity by selecting the port or the horn option in acoustic power just in case?
I have a few of these down in the 20s in ODMLTL and they work good. I’d be cool if you could manage that 17 hz? But definitely check your air particle velocity by selecting the port or the horn option in acoustic power just in case?
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17Hz is candle flicker speed and of course it will destroy brickwork and buildings as they ressonate. Not to mention causing bowel movements.
Why? ... that frequency, unless you are a whale, is not audible.
Why? ... that frequency, unless you are a whale, is not audible.
How would I check this? Is there a rule of thumb for when air speed becomes a problem?
I just tried playing around with the shape of the last segment and can get the air velocity much lower with a flare and slightly different shape to the TL.
I have the damping at zeros right now. Where and how much would you suggest? Is there something in the modeled response that I should be trying to correct here?
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I have dual ripoles in my office system (4x12" drivers) and I can definitely hear 20hz in both test tones and during music playback, particularly classical music and well recorded drums. There's a texture to things like floor toms that just isn't there if on systems that only play to 30 or 40hz. My ripoles need DSP to reach down that low, so I've experienced listening to it with/without a lot. Some good tracks that low.
50 Ways to Leave Your Lover is really fun demo track to show people my ripole system, because most people have heard the track lots, but have no idea how well-recorded and deep the drums are. The track by the Roots is nice also because the snare needs very good time-domain coherence to sound right.
The last track is a drummer recorded by a single stereo large-format ribbon microphone (response down to 20hz). Also a treat on a properly set up system (or headphones) that can play deeply.
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Yeah I have something similar the first leg is 105 cm of 300cm (low 20hz) and that’s where both the driver entry is @ . and t then two more folded segments slightly shorter —>to the exit and driver output from the front of the cone are in the same place and share in abbreviated exit chamber Just big enough to allow a down fire or end fire or whatever cut out A router can easily produce Thats best for wherever you put it or need to.
Turn her up to what are you anticipate being full power at any moment(ie the party with Drinks) make sure you haven’t created airspeed exceeding 15,16 m/s Even went in for retard mode or goofing off whatever you call it when you’re going to do those things that you don’t normally do just for fun
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Greets!
For future reference and at least for any DIYaudio thread, please EXPORT/attach your HR record when wanting HR help.
Regardless, I happened to have a similar design loaded, so inputting your original sim I first changed (Rg) = 0.5 ohm for wiring losses, then the expo taper (hard to make) to parabolic since I assume you'll have at least one set of parallel sides, then slightly changed the driver location to a more optimal offset and ran the sim with 250 W, which this alignment can't begin to handle down low, backing it off to a more realistic 120 W.
This reduced the vent (mouth) velocity to a still whopping ~33 m/s vs the ~17 m/s 'we' normally use as the upper limit, so with a bit of stuffing here n' there got it down, though of course with a ~ 6 dB loss down low and still some 'ripple' above ~ 200 Hz.
FYI/FWIW, one complete channel of this 20 kW horn system is required to reproduce a drum kit at its limit: http://web.archive.org/web/20170927023142/http://www.scrounge.org/speak/burwen/
For future reference and at least for any DIYaudio thread, please EXPORT/attach your HR record when wanting HR help.
Regardless, I happened to have a similar design loaded, so inputting your original sim I first changed (Rg) = 0.5 ohm for wiring losses, then the expo taper (hard to make) to parabolic since I assume you'll have at least one set of parallel sides, then slightly changed the driver location to a more optimal offset and ran the sim with 250 W, which this alignment can't begin to handle down low, backing it off to a more realistic 120 W.
This reduced the vent (mouth) velocity to a still whopping ~33 m/s vs the ~17 m/s 'we' normally use as the upper limit, so with a bit of stuffing here n' there got it down, though of course with a ~ 6 dB loss down low and still some 'ripple' above ~ 200 Hz.
FYI/FWIW, one complete channel of this 20 kW horn system is required to reproduce a drum kit at its limit: http://web.archive.org/web/20170927023142/http://www.scrounge.org/speak/burwen/
That horn system is nuts. I'm listening on a full-range dipole CBT, so I've got 12 identical drivers per side handling 120hz-15khz. Transients are amazing. Have never heard another system that reproduces drums like mine. Ripole below the CBTs.
This sub will be for the living room, so mixed HT / Music duty.
This sub will be for the living room, so mixed HT / Music duty.
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Golden ears or just unwarranted narcissism about ability to "know" what's playing?
Attached is my RTA for the "50 Ways..." link otswim provided in his post*. Obviously, nothing material on the recording below 35 Hz which is what few with REW would call "well recorded" or "deep". Most of the oomph is at 80 Hz, like a lot of pop recordings I hear from automobiles passing me on the street and that a lot of people mistake for great bass. Not much treble north of 2kHz either.
Also like a lot of pop recordings, miserable dynamic range and rather boring engineering (OK, that's the point of the song). Profile at any moment barely departs from the peak I've posted.
But I might add, just like otswim found, nothing too shoddy about good bass to 35 Hz, ask any Klipschorn owner.
I wish people would do an RTA before offering their opinion about FR. Saves embarrassment.
B.
*Other releases might be better than that link or my test method - dunno. Please post RTA if you have better.
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I find no embarrassment in learning or being wrong. If that's the case here, then its an opportunity for me to learn.
I shared those tracks as examples of music that I believed had information down low that is perceptible.
Try listening to the track on good headphones that play below 30hz and then again with a high pass placed above 35hz. I'm guessing that there is texture captured before the sharp dropoff.
Two questions.
1. Could you share an RTA of the r88 track? I ask b/c drums recorded on that mic sound amazing and we know it captures down to 20hz. See this channel for many more examples (https://www.youtube.com/c/OneMictheminimalistrecordingseries)
2. If you've got access to Spotify, I'm curious whether the track there has wider dynamic range than the youtube rip. I've also got a HD full of FLAC, but the convenience of Spotify is tough to argue with.
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No doubt great headphones would sound great. I'm having trouble figuring out what your test method could establish?
I suggest you give RTA using honorware REW a try. I wish everybody would try. RTA is all electric, no mic used. You might need a DAC to feed your computer output into your computer input (maybe $35 from Behringer and others). Or if you have one of those old-fashioned systems that aren't bi-amped, just disable any EQ and use the output to the speakers.
B.
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??? You posted a screen shot of it in your original post. 😉 The difference is yours is based on HR's default power whereas mine is based on using the Wizard to 'slide' my way to a realistic max amp power based on Xmax, then looking at the vent (mouth) velocity.
Absolutely! Hence my caution: though of course with a ~ 6 dB loss down low and still some 'ripple' above ~ 200 Hz.
FYI/FWIW/IIRC: way back on the Basslist, Nick McKinney (Lambda Acoustics/AE speakers) measured some (a bunch?) of recordings to find the widest and/or highest dynamic range recordings and some of the St. Saens? CDs had low B and/or +30+ dB (clipped!), so while nowhere near live music's dynamics it's still enough to audibly add (choose you're own definition) that brings us closer to the (choose you're own definition) performance.
Wimp amps need not apply for 'elevated' listening levels as these will need at least 1 kW minus speaker efficiency, any room help at 'X' desired frequency(s), so really need to find worst case or just use 1 kW.
Wimp amps need not apply for 'elevated' listening levels as these will need at least 1 kW minus speaker efficiency, any room help at 'X' desired frequency(s), so really need to find worst case or just use 1 kW.
Don’t listen to Ben Toronto his ideas are poisonous even if they’re true😂😂
Keep up the adventure cause he ain’t gonna discover nothing he’s stuck in a sticky corner with his pipe smoking ikeep up the adventure cause he ain’t gonna discover nothing he’s stuck in a sticky corner with his Big long pipe sequestering everything instead of letting it harmonically disperse in appropriate versions of each other that would’ve resolved it the same thing had he just pushed it in the right direction instead of essentially the other.
I still like what he does with that however because you’re sticking it up in one corner and you get the other and down the bottom corner and it’s kind of neat except where are you gonna sit at that’s not gonna be weird? Especially what he did that but use both sides of the cone and then put some more time of flight and one or the other but had them converge in the middle instead of being separate like he has it?
He assumes it’s gonna be a bunch of traffic in random bits and pieces of nonsense instead of his filtered out in sequestered bottom of the barrel leftovers which no one can deny or spectacular however they could still accompany other things will be more of the same without the mess that he’s concerned with or typically is really realitHe assumes it’s gonna be a bunch of traffic in random bits and pieces of nonsense instead of his filtered out in sequestered bottom of the barrel leftovers which no one can deny or spectacular however they could still accompany other things will be more of the same without the mess that he’s concerned with or typically is just as messy as he often describes that he doesn’t say anything that doesn’t seem to be 100% correct it just seems to be 100% an excuse to settle for something without really looking further and that event Horizon is sitting there waiting and always has. Parallel pipes exposed this in a way that sealed denies itz Long stuffed qw pipe does something kind of unique. At the same time is everybody scared to bring the things together because they never get together they always argue? As always just frequencies to get whacked or the driver is trying to do things and such a wide band with that the top and inevitably being distorted it doesn’t get along with the next set of speakers and screws up that kick.
So I things to think about but none of them are resolved by just smashing everything you don’t wanna deal with out of the way or silencing it or making it travels through a bunch of fibers necessarily… that’s supposed to be after the fact, That’s the beauty of it the high frequency the higher velocity areas where it really shines but doesn’t take away from the things that we want inevitably cause everybody wants base if not you’re dummthat’s the beauty of it the high frequency the higher velocity areas where it really shines but doesn’t take away from the things that we want inevitably cause everybody wants base if not , then that’s weird cause it doesn’t even sound right let alone feel right.
I don’t think it’s necessarily the case the drivers can’t drive some of these things that we could still make that do crazy things to extend the bandwidth or output for that matter if we are still going to take advantage of the bottom part of it all but remain in phase the entire way until an absolute. If this guessing game or whatever it is that we use otherwise.
BenToronto there might be something else to see that we should check out? It might be something interesting and you could still be the pessimistic police officer checkpoint who will not let any junk (drunk) go by👍🏻 ?
Keep up the adventure cause he ain’t gonna discover nothing he’s stuck in a sticky corner with his pipe smoking ikeep up the adventure cause he ain’t gonna discover nothing he’s stuck in a sticky corner with his Big long pipe sequestering everything instead of letting it harmonically disperse in appropriate versions of each other that would’ve resolved it the same thing had he just pushed it in the right direction instead of essentially the other.
I still like what he does with that however because you’re sticking it up in one corner and you get the other and down the bottom corner and it’s kind of neat except where are you gonna sit at that’s not gonna be weird? Especially what he did that but use both sides of the cone and then put some more time of flight and one or the other but had them converge in the middle instead of being separate like he has it?
He assumes it’s gonna be a bunch of traffic in random bits and pieces of nonsense instead of his filtered out in sequestered bottom of the barrel leftovers which no one can deny or spectacular however they could still accompany other things will be more of the same without the mess that he’s concerned with or typically is really realitHe assumes it’s gonna be a bunch of traffic in random bits and pieces of nonsense instead of his filtered out in sequestered bottom of the barrel leftovers which no one can deny or spectacular however they could still accompany other things will be more of the same without the mess that he’s concerned with or typically is just as messy as he often describes that he doesn’t say anything that doesn’t seem to be 100% correct it just seems to be 100% an excuse to settle for something without really looking further and that event Horizon is sitting there waiting and always has. Parallel pipes exposed this in a way that sealed denies itz Long stuffed qw pipe does something kind of unique. At the same time is everybody scared to bring the things together because they never get together they always argue? As always just frequencies to get whacked or the driver is trying to do things and such a wide band with that the top and inevitably being distorted it doesn’t get along with the next set of speakers and screws up that kick.
So I things to think about but none of them are resolved by just smashing everything you don’t wanna deal with out of the way or silencing it or making it travels through a bunch of fibers necessarily… that’s supposed to be after the fact, That’s the beauty of it the high frequency the higher velocity areas where it really shines but doesn’t take away from the things that we want inevitably cause everybody wants base if not you’re dummthat’s the beauty of it the high frequency the higher velocity areas where it really shines but doesn’t take away from the things that we want inevitably cause everybody wants base if not , then that’s weird cause it doesn’t even sound right let alone feel right.
I don’t think it’s necessarily the case the drivers can’t drive some of these things that we could still make that do crazy things to extend the bandwidth or output for that matter if we are still going to take advantage of the bottom part of it all but remain in phase the entire way until an absolute. If this guessing game or whatever it is that we use otherwise.
BenToronto there might be something else to see that we should check out? It might be something interesting and you could still be the pessimistic police officer checkpoint who will not let any junk (drunk) go by👍🏻 ?
I have no idea how to get to or would think that somebody’s not gonna argue trying to reach that threshold taxes done at 16 instead of up by 32.
I think it’s more like 28.8 and how it relates to 300 in 360 cm. Because you gotta give up some things to break down everything evenly that math ever changes if you put the driver in 360 cm pipe at 300 apart from each other. Meanwhile you have an exit at 270 but indexes the spread of the two sides and a three to one ratio. Every fold at 90cm in between on either side or in the middle you name it consider what that means?
Add a 30 cm exit so you can create one more absolute brick wall before the exit of all of those. It doesn’t matter what you do but that certainly make sure everything is in check and join before does exit the box. It seems to want to do this for whatever reason and if you look it doesn’t really matter you’ve already broken down 316 to 12 and it says enough right there.
But if you look at the mass of the shapes of circles overlaying hexagons from a Centerpoint can you try to reach out using the hexagons that are back to back 30 6090 triangle‘s making isosceles, You realize there’s a code to this already and why this is going to work no matter what you think.
it doesn’t have a choice it is the epitome of everything associated with the rectangle that’s grouped to describe a circle or circumference of one which is the key.
The perfect parallel qw Pipe resides exactly in that description but given the right CSA and the right to use Emberz you do not have a single discontinuity anyways until an absolutelyPipe resides exactly in that description I’ll be there but given the right CSA and the right tS parameters you do not have a single discontinuity until an absolutely astonishing event happens at 860 Hertz.
beginning at 860 do you have -990 DB to rely on. If that’s not a beacon and every single 860 Hz there after Barbie because there’s 96 of them before the end of human hearing what hurts or on response whatever you consider more?
And that same number is on the inverse of a centimeter. O01/254 And if you really look and you dig deep into all those decimal points and farther down the way include 003÷254. Do you know sequence of numbers that don’t require anything from you except a look and extrapolate what those mean as a centimeter or an inch is a diameter of a circle because 1 cm is one drop of freshwater anywhere on earth at 100 and does a kilogram and he keep working at math you’ll realize that every single thing including the location of Saturn or your anus is based on that I’m not alone and also the speed of light the diameter of the sun and the seconds in 12 hours or twice that has 24 are all the same exact thing so is pie except it’s not in metriDo you know sequence of numbers that don’t require anything from you except a look and extrapolate what those mean as a centimeter or an inch is a diameter of a circle because 1 cm is one drop of freshwater anywhere on earth at 100 and does a kilogram and he keep working at math you’ll realize that every single thing including the location of Saturn or your anus is based on that I’m not alone and also the speed of light the diameter of the sun and the seconds in 12 hours or twice that has 24 are all the same exact thing so is pi, that is not only in metric it’s in standard or imperial units whatever you wanna call him miles in kilometers and all of this based on the golden ratio is 15° is the golden ratio in radians and earth is at 150 K from the sun which is plenty of an excuse to start looking at what that means instead of not.
And start pulling apart enclosures that starts to make sense because they expose these numbers so that we can experience what’s really going on and work from there instead of whatever else everyone’s doing that is never going to make any sense because it doesn’t have any data that would show the connection to all of this.
it starts at horn response plain and simple you don’t know where to divide things up and you won’t know what CSA to use either so flying blind or at least in the ballpark hoping the TS parameters agree with things because the only thing going on here is CSA everything else is set in stone lengths are what they are they will never changed they’re always in the same frequency except for given set of atmosphere conditions which we’re going to ignore and just use 345.6 m/s is the only way you’re gonna see anything as compared to what they are at the speed of light in the same calculator sound or light use the same back to back and look at the connection to the Pythagorean theorem or 25 5075 and so on which is the speed of light divided into a wave form. Number three or 300 it doesn’t matter look at it what it is in radians and how about his logarithmically this is all amazing once you incorporate it into an enclosure and it never ever fails to deliver look at an offsite driver entry TL with nothing between the driver exit point and the concentric con area so to speak that’s exactly 104.76 cm in 300cm
That exposes something very unique that you should be able to relate to pie or the circumference of a circle it’s strange how many ways that works but 300 is 5.238095238 and you add that to 1.04That exposes something very unique that you should be able to relate to pie or the circumference of a circle it’s strange how many ways that works but 300 is 5.238095238 and you add that to 1.04761904 you get the circumference of a circle in 360°.
How do you still have got to use the right CSA that will never happen and what I mean is look at them result of what that does is the first stepping stone to watch all these other things will start to make sense but that’s probably the monumental hugest one of all because we can all understand that that used to be described as 0.349206349 by everyone who used it however did anyone consider what that number is what is actually doing besides the fact that it’s not harmonic intervals somehow I don’t know? All it is to me is 2° or 20 Or 20. I wanna circle that’s radians. What is the connection how does that work like that because it doesn’t matter what you do in your sealed box or in your completely separated output zones that are stuffed and shoveled into nothingness there’s nothing to learn there and there’s nothing ever going to happen there that might be special?
I just as special as good as a driver position kind of is that same exact idea will explode when applied to everything else. The version of that might be sequestering with strategy not just putting a lid on the whole kettle and pressurizing it into a mass loaded lengthened faucet cap by documenThe version of that might be sequestering with strategy not just putting a lid on the whole kettle and pressurizing it into a mass loaded lengthened charcoal filter of stinky noise? How about letting mother nature do it by piper harmonics instead or ones that are forced to interact and don’t allow any nonsense to happen either. Get rid of the same problem you can clearly see it or response if you apply at the correct way is it the parallel works even better you’re doubling down and compounding effect and you’re narrowing it down to an absolute beautiful perfect something apparently 860 Hz is very much in agreement with that because it is exposing it
I think it’s more like 28.8 and how it relates to 300 in 360 cm. Because you gotta give up some things to break down everything evenly that math ever changes if you put the driver in 360 cm pipe at 300 apart from each other. Meanwhile you have an exit at 270 but indexes the spread of the two sides and a three to one ratio. Every fold at 90cm in between on either side or in the middle you name it consider what that means?
Add a 30 cm exit so you can create one more absolute brick wall before the exit of all of those. It doesn’t matter what you do but that certainly make sure everything is in check and join before does exit the box. It seems to want to do this for whatever reason and if you look it doesn’t really matter you’ve already broken down 316 to 12 and it says enough right there.
But if you look at the mass of the shapes of circles overlaying hexagons from a Centerpoint can you try to reach out using the hexagons that are back to back 30 6090 triangle‘s making isosceles, You realize there’s a code to this already and why this is going to work no matter what you think.
it doesn’t have a choice it is the epitome of everything associated with the rectangle that’s grouped to describe a circle or circumference of one which is the key.
The perfect parallel qw Pipe resides exactly in that description but given the right CSA and the right to use Emberz you do not have a single discontinuity anyways until an absolutelyPipe resides exactly in that description I’ll be there but given the right CSA and the right tS parameters you do not have a single discontinuity until an absolutely astonishing event happens at 860 Hertz.
beginning at 860 do you have -990 DB to rely on. If that’s not a beacon and every single 860 Hz there after Barbie because there’s 96 of them before the end of human hearing what hurts or on response whatever you consider more?
And that same number is on the inverse of a centimeter. O01/254 And if you really look and you dig deep into all those decimal points and farther down the way include 003÷254. Do you know sequence of numbers that don’t require anything from you except a look and extrapolate what those mean as a centimeter or an inch is a diameter of a circle because 1 cm is one drop of freshwater anywhere on earth at 100 and does a kilogram and he keep working at math you’ll realize that every single thing including the location of Saturn or your anus is based on that I’m not alone and also the speed of light the diameter of the sun and the seconds in 12 hours or twice that has 24 are all the same exact thing so is pie except it’s not in metriDo you know sequence of numbers that don’t require anything from you except a look and extrapolate what those mean as a centimeter or an inch is a diameter of a circle because 1 cm is one drop of freshwater anywhere on earth at 100 and does a kilogram and he keep working at math you’ll realize that every single thing including the location of Saturn or your anus is based on that I’m not alone and also the speed of light the diameter of the sun and the seconds in 12 hours or twice that has 24 are all the same exact thing so is pi, that is not only in metric it’s in standard or imperial units whatever you wanna call him miles in kilometers and all of this based on the golden ratio is 15° is the golden ratio in radians and earth is at 150 K from the sun which is plenty of an excuse to start looking at what that means instead of not.
And start pulling apart enclosures that starts to make sense because they expose these numbers so that we can experience what’s really going on and work from there instead of whatever else everyone’s doing that is never going to make any sense because it doesn’t have any data that would show the connection to all of this.
it starts at horn response plain and simple you don’t know where to divide things up and you won’t know what CSA to use either so flying blind or at least in the ballpark hoping the TS parameters agree with things because the only thing going on here is CSA everything else is set in stone lengths are what they are they will never changed they’re always in the same frequency except for given set of atmosphere conditions which we’re going to ignore and just use 345.6 m/s is the only way you’re gonna see anything as compared to what they are at the speed of light in the same calculator sound or light use the same back to back and look at the connection to the Pythagorean theorem or 25 5075 and so on which is the speed of light divided into a wave form. Number three or 300 it doesn’t matter look at it what it is in radians and how about his logarithmically this is all amazing once you incorporate it into an enclosure and it never ever fails to deliver look at an offsite driver entry TL with nothing between the driver exit point and the concentric con area so to speak that’s exactly 104.76 cm in 300cm
That exposes something very unique that you should be able to relate to pie or the circumference of a circle it’s strange how many ways that works but 300 is 5.238095238 and you add that to 1.04That exposes something very unique that you should be able to relate to pie or the circumference of a circle it’s strange how many ways that works but 300 is 5.238095238 and you add that to 1.04761904 you get the circumference of a circle in 360°.
How do you still have got to use the right CSA that will never happen and what I mean is look at them result of what that does is the first stepping stone to watch all these other things will start to make sense but that’s probably the monumental hugest one of all because we can all understand that that used to be described as 0.349206349 by everyone who used it however did anyone consider what that number is what is actually doing besides the fact that it’s not harmonic intervals somehow I don’t know? All it is to me is 2° or 20 Or 20. I wanna circle that’s radians. What is the connection how does that work like that because it doesn’t matter what you do in your sealed box or in your completely separated output zones that are stuffed and shoveled into nothingness there’s nothing to learn there and there’s nothing ever going to happen there that might be special?
I just as special as good as a driver position kind of is that same exact idea will explode when applied to everything else. The version of that might be sequestering with strategy not just putting a lid on the whole kettle and pressurizing it into a mass loaded lengthened faucet cap by documenThe version of that might be sequestering with strategy not just putting a lid on the whole kettle and pressurizing it into a mass loaded lengthened charcoal filter of stinky noise? How about letting mother nature do it by piper harmonics instead or ones that are forced to interact and don’t allow any nonsense to happen either. Get rid of the same problem you can clearly see it or response if you apply at the correct way is it the parallel works even better you’re doubling down and compounding effect and you’re narrowing it down to an absolute beautiful perfect something apparently 860 Hz is very much in agreement with that because it is exposing it