Hello everyone!
I would like to ask you for your opinion regarding plans for my first DIY speakers. I have basically two options, which I am deciding. I hope I can use one offer and buy Tang Band W5-1611SAF full range drivers for very good price. I would love to build FAST speakers with them. Honestly, I dont have much experience with speaker design, therefore I have decided to ask you for an advice regarding woofer selection.
I have generally two options (as my budget is very limited):
A: Vifa M22WR-09-08 (8")
B: Dayton Audio DS270-8 (10")
Generally, I would prefer the 8" Vifa driver, as it has lower Fs (26hz), and the 8 inch suits my "appearance design" better. However the sensitivity is 88db, while the 10" dayton has Fs 32hz but similar sensitivity as the full range (DS 90.7 and TB 90db).
Could someone please provide any opinion? I would appreciate it a lot!
Thank you and all the best in 2022 to everyone!
I would like to ask you for your opinion regarding plans for my first DIY speakers. I have basically two options, which I am deciding. I hope I can use one offer and buy Tang Band W5-1611SAF full range drivers for very good price. I would love to build FAST speakers with them. Honestly, I dont have much experience with speaker design, therefore I have decided to ask you for an advice regarding woofer selection.
I have generally two options (as my budget is very limited):
A: Vifa M22WR-09-08 (8")
B: Dayton Audio DS270-8 (10")
Generally, I would prefer the 8" Vifa driver, as it has lower Fs (26hz), and the 8 inch suits my "appearance design" better. However the sensitivity is 88db, while the 10" dayton has Fs 32hz but similar sensitivity as the full range (DS 90.7 and TB 90db).
Could someone please provide any opinion? I would appreciate it a lot!
Thank you and all the best in 2022 to everyone!
Maybe the question is not placed correctly.. or too generally.. is there any way, how can I predict the result with each of the woofer drivers, so I can pre-evaluate or estimate, which of the drivers has potential to have better results with the FR finally? If I don't screw the design up ofc.
I agree with Dave. I made a pair of small PR speakers with the TB to be shipped to the West Coast to a friend. With some baffle step compensation, I could get the bass sounding right but I was never happy with the treble. I have a second pair of them and I plan to put them in a Tabac with a small tweeter, probably the PT Mini, above them.
Thank you very mich for your opinion guys. I got answer today, that the seller won't ship those speakers to Czech republic.. soo..let's consider this topic closed.. I ordered two of those Vifa M22s, and I will now think of the overall design again.. I wanted to go 2-way, because crossovers are so damn complicated for me, that I wanted to make it "simplier".. I still would like to go with this woofer-fr design, however it is maybe impossible to find good fullrangers in this price range, so I will probably go 3-way finally. It's difficult to decide.. each way brings specific complications for me..
Danny, I suggest you go smaller for your FR with the woofers you bought.
think 2.5” or 3”. Lots of good little drivers at that size.
think 2.5” or 3”. Lots of good little drivers at that size.
I tried those W5 in a TABAQ large, and they did not deliver. I got better bass from little 3” or 4” drivers I have here.
i lost faith with those. Made little vented boxes and will give them to some teenager
Thank you very much for your comments! That is really appreciated!
The reason why I chose the w5 driver was the sensitivity and power handling. The woofer has very high power handling capabilities (150w), so maybe that is where my next question will go, because I wish I could keep my original idea.
To successfuly match the drivers, which parameters I should consider as the most important and how to match them with the woofer?
Like:
Woofer Wrms: 150 -> FR Wrms: ? (Driven with XO around 800-1000khz)
Woofer sens: 88db -> FR sens: ?
Impedance is clear
Other TS parameters to consider?
Just for recap, "exact" TS will measure as I recieve the woofers.
I will give some more examples of the FR drivers, which I can still afford:
A: Dayton Audio RS100T-8 - according to many builds, also seen on this forum, this may be considered as a candidate:
Sensitivity: 87db
Pwr: 30 watts
(I don't want to burn it ifbI turn the volume up a bit - which probably won't happen, but I don't have the experience to evaluate this)
B: Tang Band W3-881SJ
Sensitivity: 86db
Pwr: 15watts - probably too low
C: Tang Band W3-2141
Sensitivity: 87db
Pwr: 25watts
I have no other candidate on my mind currently, maybe some of the MarkAudio drivers may be considered as well..
Regarding the woofer section, I plan to cross minimally at 650hz because of my budget limits. The crossover components are getting way too expensive when going lower, especially the coils. I plan both filters (highpass and lowpass) to be 2nd order, in case it doesn't work well, maybe 3rd order for the woofer section).
FR driver ideally will be sealed cabinet and the woofer in vented. If I crack the necessary knwoledge, I would live to make the Vifa woofer in a T-line, but maybe easier way will be classic ported enclosure. Depends, which enclosure I will be able to calculate properly. but there was a project with RS225 on this forum where folded T-line was done. I wish to go this way, it is very interesting and beautiful design, however I don't know hot to design such an enclosure at the moment..
I would be happy for any comment again! Thank you everyone!
The reason why I chose the w5 driver was the sensitivity and power handling. The woofer has very high power handling capabilities (150w), so maybe that is where my next question will go, because I wish I could keep my original idea.
To successfuly match the drivers, which parameters I should consider as the most important and how to match them with the woofer?
Like:
Woofer Wrms: 150 -> FR Wrms: ? (Driven with XO around 800-1000khz)
Woofer sens: 88db -> FR sens: ?
Impedance is clear
Other TS parameters to consider?
Just for recap, "exact" TS will measure as I recieve the woofers.
I will give some more examples of the FR drivers, which I can still afford:
A: Dayton Audio RS100T-8 - according to many builds, also seen on this forum, this may be considered as a candidate:
Sensitivity: 87db
Pwr: 30 watts
(I don't want to burn it ifbI turn the volume up a bit - which probably won't happen, but I don't have the experience to evaluate this)
B: Tang Band W3-881SJ
Sensitivity: 86db
Pwr: 15watts - probably too low
C: Tang Band W3-2141
Sensitivity: 87db
Pwr: 25watts
I have no other candidate on my mind currently, maybe some of the MarkAudio drivers may be considered as well..
Regarding the woofer section, I plan to cross minimally at 650hz because of my budget limits. The crossover components are getting way too expensive when going lower, especially the coils. I plan both filters (highpass and lowpass) to be 2nd order, in case it doesn't work well, maybe 3rd order for the woofer section).
FR driver ideally will be sealed cabinet and the woofer in vented. If I crack the necessary knwoledge, I would live to make the Vifa woofer in a T-line, but maybe easier way will be classic ported enclosure. Depends, which enclosure I will be able to calculate properly. but there was a project with RS225 on this forum where folded T-line was done. I wish to go this way, it is very interesting and beautiful design, however I don't know hot to design such an enclosure at the moment..
I would be happy for any comment again! Thank you everyone!
A more or less irrelevant number when it comes to hifi drivers.
You can pretty safely ignore that.
Mark Audio are typically quite good.
dave
I understand.. and I quite expected that, however I was worry about this parameter, because I would spare money for another drivers for a year again..
And I apologize, I know I am probably being very stupid with my questions.
Everything I "know" at this moment (which is very..limited, let's say..) I know just from reading around internet.. so.. if anyone get's mad about my completely stupid question, I can understand.. and I am really sorry about that..it is just.. I have read so many articles, but practically it tought me nothing.. for me, I need the theory and the practical part to run simultaneously to understand it.. otherwise I don't.. I have general knowledge of physics and much less of acoustics etc.. basically, I am stupid.. I have just my ears, which were never satisfied with my speakers.. currently I use Logitech z-2300 speakers, so.. yeah.. that's bad.. I don't want to buy finished speakers or diy kit, because I want to learn it and understand it..
Currently I understand maybe 0,00001% of the required knowledge, I'd say.. but this doens't stop me from starting my project.. this may affect the result only.. if it's bad, I will start again from 0. However during the building process I believe to learn much more than just by reading.. and the next speakers may have better results. if not, I will start again, and again with more knowledge learnt by the previous build.. this is my vision.. I can see, that everyone here is basically professional.. especially in comparison with me.. when I read some specific threads here, I don't understand half of the content sometimes.. seeing all those graphs etc..
what I can do is woodworking.. not pro, but I am precise and patient..
regarding the design, I have just very old laptop to work on and I still rather bought the drivers for the saved money than xD even my phone is trash, but the speakers are priority for me.. so, I am a little bit crazy probably 😀 but I will fulfil this dream..
I decided not to steal more time from you, guys, with my elementary stupid questions, because.. you have better things to do, than advice dumbass like me. But I promise, once I proceed, once I have the design finished and prepared drawings etc., I will return and share the project! 🙂
Thank you for any comments provided, it was helpful! I finally understand that I need to stop planning, and thinking, and drawing useless ideas on the paper, and that I need to start input to softwares and be more specific!
See you later!
Don't be so hard on yourself. This is a DIY community and if someone doesn't want to answer your questions, they can keep scrolling. Many members enjoy helping other members, so don't be afraid to ask questions and ask for clarification if you need it. You can always ask for sites and material you can reference for learning about these things. This can be a very complex hobby, so the knowledgeable people have been working with these things for years. You can't expect to know a lot starting off, and that's expected. 🙂
Hang in there and ask more questions.
Mike
What they said--please don't thrash yourself. Audio pursuits can be rewarding lifelong hobbies and the range of subjects is both broad and deep. It's all too much for any single person to know from sawblades to psychoacoustics. All you need is ears and an open mind and some curiosity.
Danny, first, you will not save money by going DIY in the beginning. But that is how we all learned.
Since this is your first try, how about keeping things simple?
We are in the full range forum, so let’s start with a full range. No XO.
A good introduction to hifi is the TABAQ design. It is very easy to build, and it works with many 3“ or 4” drivers.
They will impress you a lot, and they will make you give away your little Logitech setup.
It will be cheaper than buying two FR and two woofers, plus XO parts, so use that money to buy a USB measurement microphone, like the Umik or similar. If you are serious about DIY, you will need a mic and REW to measure your speakers.
That‘s what I would do. Learn slowly, and don’t get discouraged.
Since this is your first try, how about keeping things simple?
We are in the full range forum, so let’s start with a full range. No XO.
A good introduction to hifi is the TABAQ design. It is very easy to build, and it works with many 3“ or 4” drivers.
They will impress you a lot, and they will make you give away your little Logitech setup.
It will be cheaper than buying two FR and two woofers, plus XO parts, so use that money to buy a USB measurement microphone, like the Umik or similar. If you are serious about DIY, you will need a mic and REW to measure your speakers.
That‘s what I would do. Learn slowly, and don’t get discouraged.
Perceval,
Thank you for the info. I also have a pair of W4-1337SDF. Do you have any experience with it in a Tabac vs W5-1611?
Thank you for the info. I also have a pair of W4-1337SDF. Do you have any experience with it in a Tabac vs W5-1611?
TABAQ has proven popular and versatile.
Also look at the Furgel-Horns. They are also versatile, but s little trickier build. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-frugel-horn-family.277557/
You would looking at Frugel-Horn Mk3 for the W4.
Both will stretch the capabilities of your existing FR. One of the most common comments heard is “that bass is coming from a 4”?
Once you have that initial experience you will have a much better idea of the possibke directions you can and want to explore.
dave
Also look at the Furgel-Horns. They are also versatile, but s little trickier build. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-frugel-horn-family.277557/
You would looking at Frugel-Horn Mk3 for the W4.
Both will stretch the capabilities of your existing FR. One of the most common comments heard is “that bass is coming from a 4”?
Once you have that initial experience you will have a much better idea of the possibke directions you can and want to explore.
dave
That W4 was already built. Sounds like it sounds pretty good.
check here, post #2,362:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/tabaq-tl-for-tang-band.88787/post-5808461
check here, post #2,362:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/tabaq-tl-for-tang-band.88787/post-5808461
Thank you very much for this approach, everyone.. this is really very nice from all of you.. you cannot imagine how happy I am, that I can ask someone for advice..
However, I will start new thread with more details about me, my vision and with more reasonable questions, so I dont waste anyone's time with nonsense questions.. will do it more step by step..
perceval: Yeah, I know I won't save money.. but that wasn't the point actually.. I try to save money i.e. by getting used drivers. I just want to learn to and build the speakers for the money I am able to spend on it.. that's it.. FR speaker was my first plan.. originally I wanted to buy pair of W8-2145 to avoid crossovers etc. Than I sort of changed my mind and I was considering to go with MarkAudio drivers, however what I didn't consider at the first moment was that there are some limits for the speakers, like which kind of music they are suitable for.. I love classical music, which would be fine, however I like some deathcore, rap, electronic music, depending on mood.. and from what I read, also in threads where Mark discussed about cone cracks in low frequencies etc., I considered that these speakers are not suitable for me, at least unless I pair them with a woofer.. that basically brought me to this kind of speaker design, which I would like to build..
Regarding the measurement equipment, it is outside the budget.. I consider this necessary as well ofc, therefore I will buy the UMIK-1 which I don't count to the speakers budget 😉 I will post more in the new thread..
I have pre-last (maybe stupid) question for this thread.. I know you said, that I should be looking for smaller Full range drivers, however I found offer for 2pcs of TangBand W5-2106 for 60€.. for that price it is just worth of asking.. are they any good? I have seen them in enclosures with 15inch woofers, so, I guess it is not suitable for my purpose.. just.. as I said.. for that price I rather ask so I don't miss that..
And last series of questions.. what would happen if I put 5 inch FR together with 8 inch woofer? You said it is not good idea, but I am not sure why? Final SPL will differ too much for the woofer and FR section? Or is there also another reason? Honestly, maybe if I have one 3 inch speaker and one 5 inch speaker in front of me and listen to the difference in the sound I would understand, but I have never heard this kind of speakers..soo.. xD It's difficult to imagine everything we talk about in praxis..
Thank you very much in advance! I will finish the new thread today hopefully..
Thanks in advance!
However, I will start new thread with more details about me, my vision and with more reasonable questions, so I dont waste anyone's time with nonsense questions.. will do it more step by step..
perceval: Yeah, I know I won't save money.. but that wasn't the point actually.. I try to save money i.e. by getting used drivers. I just want to learn to and build the speakers for the money I am able to spend on it.. that's it.. FR speaker was my first plan.. originally I wanted to buy pair of W8-2145 to avoid crossovers etc. Than I sort of changed my mind and I was considering to go with MarkAudio drivers, however what I didn't consider at the first moment was that there are some limits for the speakers, like which kind of music they are suitable for.. I love classical music, which would be fine, however I like some deathcore, rap, electronic music, depending on mood.. and from what I read, also in threads where Mark discussed about cone cracks in low frequencies etc., I considered that these speakers are not suitable for me, at least unless I pair them with a woofer.. that basically brought me to this kind of speaker design, which I would like to build..
Regarding the measurement equipment, it is outside the budget.. I consider this necessary as well ofc, therefore I will buy the UMIK-1 which I don't count to the speakers budget 😉 I will post more in the new thread..
I have pre-last (maybe stupid) question for this thread.. I know you said, that I should be looking for smaller Full range drivers, however I found offer for 2pcs of TangBand W5-2106 for 60€.. for that price it is just worth of asking.. are they any good? I have seen them in enclosures with 15inch woofers, so, I guess it is not suitable for my purpose.. just.. as I said.. for that price I rather ask so I don't miss that..
And last series of questions.. what would happen if I put 5 inch FR together with 8 inch woofer? You said it is not good idea, but I am not sure why? Final SPL will differ too much for the woofer and FR section? Or is there also another reason? Honestly, maybe if I have one 3 inch speaker and one 5 inch speaker in front of me and listen to the difference in the sound I would understand, but I have never heard this kind of speakers..soo.. xD It's difficult to imagine everything we talk about in praxis..
Thank you very much in advance! I will finish the new thread today hopefully..
Thanks in advance!