Considering a new build. I happen to have a 1.5 cu ft cabinet in my shop not being used so I was thinking either a 2way or 3 way. I have a sub so I don’t need subterranean bass.
7 or 8 inch woofer and 1 inch dome
Or
7 or 8 inch woofer, 1 inch dome and Fountek Neo 3 (Hate to use the term super tweeter but this is kind of like Harbeths 3 way with 2 tweeters.)
In a separate thread I was suggested these 2 tweeters
D2604 or DX25BCG60
Woofers under consideration: SS 18W/8531G, Seas W22NY, Seas U22REX, Dayton RS225P-8.
The W22NY is expensive so unless there is a compelling reason to use it. My focus is on clean mids that have a relaxed natural sound. I don’t want ultra detail at the expense of musicality. Your thoughts are welcomed and appreciated. Thank you.
7 or 8 inch woofer and 1 inch dome
Or
7 or 8 inch woofer, 1 inch dome and Fountek Neo 3 (Hate to use the term super tweeter but this is kind of like Harbeths 3 way with 2 tweeters.)
In a separate thread I was suggested these 2 tweeters
D2604 or DX25BCG60
Woofers under consideration: SS 18W/8531G, Seas W22NY, Seas U22REX, Dayton RS225P-8.
The W22NY is expensive so unless there is a compelling reason to use it. My focus is on clean mids that have a relaxed natural sound. I don’t want ultra detail at the expense of musicality. Your thoughts are welcomed and appreciated. Thank you.
8" bass is usually easy enough in a two way:
A U22REX would work well enough I think. Joachim Gerhard likes it with the DXT tweeter on a similar filter:
H1499-06 27TBCD/GB-DXT
Sky's the limit on higher order filters. Restoring Monitor Audio R300 bookshelf speakers.
3 ways are such an open subject, I think you should do some simming. 8" plus 1" plus 3/4" supertweeter is what most people do.
You'd need to work hard at the crossover.
A U22REX would work well enough I think. Joachim Gerhard likes it with the DXT tweeter on a similar filter:
H1499-06 27TBCD/GB-DXT
Sky's the limit on higher order filters. Restoring Monitor Audio R300 bookshelf speakers.
3 ways are such an open subject, I think you should do some simming. 8" plus 1" plus 3/4" supertweeter is what most people do.
You'd need to work hard at the crossover.
The Dayton RS225P-8 has very low QMS. Some say that's a bad thing, but I don't know if there's any truth in it or not.
Subjectively, I don't like the sound of metal or plastic drivers, but I haven't heard them all, and we all have different ears, so YMMV.
I quite like the look of the Dayton PS220-8 or the PM220-8. The PS220 needs quite a large ported enclosure, but will work in a relatively small sealed box if you use a good subwoofer to fill in the low end. I haven't modelled the PM220 though. The wonky response above 1.5khz could make crossover design very difficult though...
Although low QMS, I quite like the look of the Seas CA22RNY for a 2-way. I've heard some people say Seas coated paper have a better midrange than Scanspeak, but Scanspeak produce better bass. If the Seas was used in a sealed box with a subwoofer, then the low end wouldn't matter anyway.
Subjectively, I don't like the sound of metal or plastic drivers, but I haven't heard them all, and we all have different ears, so YMMV.
I quite like the look of the Dayton PS220-8 or the PM220-8. The PS220 needs quite a large ported enclosure, but will work in a relatively small sealed box if you use a good subwoofer to fill in the low end. I haven't modelled the PM220 though. The wonky response above 1.5khz could make crossover design very difficult though...
Although low QMS, I quite like the look of the Seas CA22RNY for a 2-way. I've heard some people say Seas coated paper have a better midrange than Scanspeak, but Scanspeak produce better bass. If the Seas was used in a sealed box with a subwoofer, then the low end wouldn't matter anyway.
I was just looking around for a 40L design.
Plenty at Madisound in their crossover archive. But this one caught my eye.
Osprey-BR (Eminence Beta 10CX with Selenium D220Ti) – AmpsLab
If it all fits, Eminence drivers are a very fine lively sound. The 10CX is used in some very high end designs. Not much deep bass, being efficient, but you have a sub I think.
6moons audio reviews: WLM Diva Monitor with Diva Control
Plenty at Madisound in their crossover archive. But this one caught my eye.
Osprey-BR (Eminence Beta 10CX with Selenium D220Ti) – AmpsLab
If it all fits, Eminence drivers are a very fine lively sound. The 10CX is used in some very high end designs. Not much deep bass, being efficient, but you have a sub I think.
6moons audio reviews: WLM Diva Monitor with Diva Control
Lots to think about here. Let me get back later. I am confused as to why the XO will be difficult if I add a second tweeter.
Phasing, polar response issues, so my solution way back when was to mount them in a WG to both blend/control dispersion and allow a lower XO point. 😉
If you mount either of your tweeter choices in an 8" wg crossed about 1kHz should mate very well with the scan or seas woofers.
new territory
OK so I have never worked with WG's. I wouldnt know what type to use or where to get them or how to model them.....I like the idea, just new to me.
OK so I have never worked with WG's. I wouldnt know what type to use or where to get them or how to model them.....I like the idea, just new to me.
If you want 8" 2-way, directivity mismatch at Fc and tweeter power handling are the biggest issues.
You have basically two options:
1. You can use large dome tweeter (Bliesma T34A/B, Seas T35, Wavecor TW030WA, ...) and place the crossover <1500Hz.
2. Use waveguided tweeter
Here is what it should look like, as inspiration. WG is WG-300 Monacor. Scan Speak 22W Discovery is probably one of few 8inchers suitable for 2-way speaker and it is budget friendly. It is woofer I would not heasitate to use.
Heissmann Acoustics | Disco-M | 20l reference speaker
Other 8inchers suitable for 2-way:
NE225W
Audax HM210Zx and 210CP
WF223BD
You have basically two options:
1. You can use large dome tweeter (Bliesma T34A/B, Seas T35, Wavecor TW030WA, ...) and place the crossover <1500Hz.
2. Use waveguided tweeter
Here is what it should look like, as inspiration. WG is WG-300 Monacor. Scan Speak 22W Discovery is probably one of few 8inchers suitable for 2-way speaker and it is budget friendly. It is woofer I would not heasitate to use.
Heissmann Acoustics | Disco-M | 20l reference speaker
Other 8inchers suitable for 2-way:
NE225W
Audax HM210Zx and 210CP
WF223BD
ohh that is sweet Pida!
So Im good with your suggestion, I will look at the driver suggestions. Just curious I was reading where the SS is better at bass than at mids. I want a relaxed no shout midrange. So I am not sure how the Seas stuff compares. Also I assume you have to get a WG that is specifically made for the tweeter and other possible parameters.
So Im good with your suggestion, I will look at the driver suggestions. Just curious I was reading where the SS is better at bass than at mids. I want a relaxed no shout midrange. So I am not sure how the Seas stuff compares. Also I assume you have to get a WG that is specifically made for the tweeter and other possible parameters.
Question: The NE225W looks very much like the Satori drivers. Is the resemblance coincidental ???
There are DIY WG-tweeter combinations that work well. That Heissmann stuff I linked is one of them, and this combo can be cross over ~1500Hz.
Or just buy Satori Be tweeter with WG. Refer to Helios project.
One thing, 8inch 2-way is compromise and finding suitable 8inch midwoofer is the key. 22W Discovery midrange quality might not be of MW16or18WUorW18NXor....whatever level, but you need 8incher that is well balanced and good from bass to 2kHz and this is not easy task.
Most of Seas drivers is either expensive or mediocre performers technically or just good sounding, or all of that together. That is the reason I mentioned 22W Discovery. There are likely better options, but most likely more expensive.
Or just buy Satori Be tweeter with WG. Refer to Helios project.
One thing, 8inch 2-way is compromise and finding suitable 8inch midwoofer is the key. 22W Discovery midrange quality might not be of MW16or18WUorW18NXor....whatever level, but you need 8incher that is well balanced and good from bass to 2kHz and this is not easy task.
Most of Seas drivers is either expensive or mediocre performers technically or just good sounding, or all of that together. That is the reason I mentioned 22W Discovery. There are likely better options, but most likely more expensive.
OK so since I have sub I can use 7 inch drivers. But now this opens a can of worms see below.
My current speakers are (2) MW16P and Satori T29 tweeter in a MMT config. There is a certain harshness that I can't seem to find the source of. It sounds peaky. In separate threads a while back people chimed in to help and although I was able to make it better I was never totally satisfied. It seems some of the suggestions lead me right back to my current system. Hmmmmmm
My current speakers are (2) MW16P and Satori T29 tweeter in a MMT config. There is a certain harshness that I can't seem to find the source of. It sounds peaky. In separate threads a while back people chimed in to help and although I was able to make it better I was never totally satisfied. It seems some of the suggestions lead me right back to my current system. Hmmmmmm
Sounds like a crossover problem. Have you got any measurements? Off-axis measurements would also be useful.
#fatmarley I expended quite a bit of time on the XO. In fact after collaborating with others the XO came out very close if not identical to a proven design. I have a feeling it is something up stream in my system OR I just dont like the sonic signature of those particular drivers. Thats the only reason I was thinking of other brands. Plus it's a learning experience for me as I dont design often enough to be as good as many on this forum. I appreciate all the input.
It also has a higher Qts (around .5 despite what the datasheets say) that's decent for a sealed enclosure.
22W/8534G00 – Scan-Speak A/S
These are excellent to use as stacked *mid-tweeters (2 of them in series positioned vertically right next to each other):
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-1626--tymphany-tc5fc07-04-spec-sheet.pdf
*I use these as dipole tweeters in my Home Theater L/C/R front speakers for their excellent treble.
..and for the "super" tweeter - I rather like the detail this provides (when compared to the Founteks), but only when used above 4 kHz:
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/297-421--hi-vi-rt13we-spec-sheet.pdf
There are some little plastic enclosures available for mid duty. Beyma and Visaton for instance. Interests me too.
Hope it's not too off topic, but I didn't like anything I saw in your various Satori crossovers... 😱
Assistance with cause of Harshness
SB Acoustic's Rinjani looked much better for a 2.5:
Rinjani - Sbacoustics
IMO, you used too much shunt capacitance and not enough inductance on the bass and midbass. The crossover on the tweeter is too low too for a second order also. Just my 2c as they say.
Hope it's not too off topic, but I didn't like anything I saw in your various Satori crossovers... 😱
Assistance with cause of Harshness
SB Acoustic's Rinjani looked much better for a 2.5:
Rinjani - Sbacoustics
IMO, you used too much shunt capacitance and not enough inductance on the bass and midbass. The crossover on the tweeter is too low too for a second order also. Just my 2c as they say.
