Has anyone calculated savings compared to Incandescent bulbs?
I recently bought a box of 12 100W 5000K 1500Lumen bulbs off Amazon to improve the lighting in my house. At near 70 years I have difficulty seeing without lots of light.
I measured the power consumption and did a rough comparison to 100W 1000Hr life bulbs.
It looks like over a 1000Hr life of the incandescent bulb, the LED saves about $17 at a presumed electrical rate of $0.19/KW-HR (11.5W LED consumption). Given that the 25000 hr life is inflated, and using 10,000hrs instead.
I also bought some 200W equivalent 3000Lumin 5K temp bulbs that actually measure 23W consumption.
Isn't technology great?
I recently bought a box of 12 100W 5000K 1500Lumen bulbs off Amazon to improve the lighting in my house. At near 70 years I have difficulty seeing without lots of light.
I measured the power consumption and did a rough comparison to 100W 1000Hr life bulbs.
It looks like over a 1000Hr life of the incandescent bulb, the LED saves about $17 at a presumed electrical rate of $0.19/KW-HR (11.5W LED consumption). Given that the 25000 hr life is inflated, and using 10,000hrs instead.
I also bought some 200W equivalent 3000Lumin 5K temp bulbs that actually measure 23W consumption.
Isn't technology great?
It is!
Still, the lighting quality of LED lighting has been improved tremendously and they sure are a worthy replacement but the ballasts are not the best for mains voltage quality. While the LEDs live very long when the cooling part of the design is OK, the ballasts are often not of the same reliability. I noticed differences in longevity when installing large numbers of these from various brands.
Tip: as high these Lumen numbers may seem... if they are replacement bulbs in old filament bulb sockets they will also emit light to "wrong" directions. A complete new A branded fixture has way more Lumen where you want it to be.
The curious thing is that the less electric energy we use here the more expensive it is (taxes) 🙂
Still, the lighting quality of LED lighting has been improved tremendously and they sure are a worthy replacement but the ballasts are not the best for mains voltage quality. While the LEDs live very long when the cooling part of the design is OK, the ballasts are often not of the same reliability. I noticed differences in longevity when installing large numbers of these from various brands.
Tip: as high these Lumen numbers may seem... if they are replacement bulbs in old filament bulb sockets they will also emit light to "wrong" directions. A complete new A branded fixture has way more Lumen where you want it to be.
The curious thing is that the less electric energy we use here the more expensive it is (taxes) 🙂
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jean-paul, You bring up a very valid point. I have noticed that especially with overhead light/fan assemblies the lamp sockets are sub-optimal for LED bulbs. They especially cast shadows in corners.
That said, bumping up to the next lumen point can overcome the limitations without excessive power dissipation.
In my garage where there were two bulbs mounted vertically in the ceiling, the newer bulbs do very well.
I replaced two early LED bulbs with heat sinks with newer ones which dissipate 30% less power and the improvement was noticeable.
That said, bumping up to the next lumen point can overcome the limitations without excessive power dissipation.
In my garage where there were two bulbs mounted vertically in the ceiling, the newer bulbs do very well.
I replaced two early LED bulbs with heat sinks with newer ones which dissipate 30% less power and the improvement was noticeable.
Hi I can only tell that flat surface mount fixtures that have ring type COB LED assemblies are a vast improvement over bulbs.
I replaced hundreds of TL (neon) tubes for industrial LED TL replacements and these of course have the worst physical format for LED. Using same wattage same length complete fixtures nearly doubled the light output. The higher cost of complete quality fixtures was a little compensated by using less fixtures (as output was high).
In general: for cosy/living rooms we use 3000K, for technical rooms/kitchens/bathrooms where clear sight is important 4000K. 5000K is daylight and not the most enjoyable light color in homes but very good in our hobby rooms 😉 I see this is culturally defined as in some countries where I used to come I could not even find 3000K lighting.
I replaced hundreds of TL (neon) tubes for industrial LED TL replacements and these of course have the worst physical format for LED. Using same wattage same length complete fixtures nearly doubled the light output. The higher cost of complete quality fixtures was a little compensated by using less fixtures (as output was high).
In general: for cosy/living rooms we use 3000K, for technical rooms/kitchens/bathrooms where clear sight is important 4000K. 5000K is daylight and not the most enjoyable light color in homes but very good in our hobby rooms 😉 I see this is culturally defined as in some countries where I used to come I could not even find 3000K lighting.
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I am a great enthusiast of decent household lighting.
Cost-no-object, I always liked 12V tungsten-halide,
Naturally as someone who is environmentally friendly, I prefer the LED solution. But a can of worms IMO. I have recently discovered that 5-9 W LED light bulbs scarcely stagger above old tungsten 40W output in practise.
No wonder I thought I was going blind. Useless lightbulbs, IMO. We deserve better. 😀
Cost-no-object, I always liked 12V tungsten-halide,
Naturally as someone who is environmentally friendly, I prefer the LED solution. But a can of worms IMO. I have recently discovered that 5-9 W LED light bulbs scarcely stagger above old tungsten 40W output in practise.
No wonder I thought I was going blind. Useless lightbulbs, IMO. We deserve better. 😀
Use quality stuff and use the right Lumen output and light color for the application. If the 5-9W LED bulbs have the same output as 40W filament bulbs they do a great job except when you had a 60W filament bulb at that spot. Manufacturers tend to use the wattage of the older filament bulbs as a the name for the LED versions to make it easier for consumers but using Lumen is a better way to select. And they are sometimes creative in their way of specifying.
The better brands produce high output LED bulbs but again, complete new ring type fixtures are way better because of the light emitting pattern of LEDs. The old fixtures were designed for filament lighting bulbs, we just think it to be convenience to replace them for LED replacements. Ceiling mount new LED fixtures have no user replaceable LED bulb, so they are thinner, lighter and have higher light output with not a much shadowing as LED bulbs do in old fixtures.
Sometimes I visit people that replaced 40W bulbs for 3W Ikea LED bulbs and it then really is hard to discern where your cup of coffee is.
The better brands produce high output LED bulbs but again, complete new ring type fixtures are way better because of the light emitting pattern of LEDs. The old fixtures were designed for filament lighting bulbs, we just think it to be convenience to replace them for LED replacements. Ceiling mount new LED fixtures have no user replaceable LED bulb, so they are thinner, lighter and have higher light output with not a much shadowing as LED bulbs do in old fixtures.
Sometimes I visit people that replaced 40W bulbs for 3W Ikea LED bulbs and it then really is hard to discern where your cup of coffee is.
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I gotta say I hate LEDs. I find them blinding even when dimmed. That's the deal breaker for me. Although you may get used to their unnatural luminosity, you're still missing out on the, imo, welcome atmosphere of incandescents. I wonder how many of us would prefer them without the cost factor. Here in Canada I find it hard to buy into the whole power conservation thing when we regularly pay the US to take our extra overload. And still we're being assessed and charged with peak hour/off hour rate scales. With all the current tech in place for power production, it's ridiculous. Hydro power is not a fossil fuel. At least not here. If we were using coal to make electricity I would have a different perspective.
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I stick with the Philips brand of LED bulbs because I dound out they're definitely more reliable and longer-lasting than most other brands.
I haven't had to change any of them yet, and it's been years using them.
One bulb, a Philips 15 watt equiv.,which draws only 3 watts candelabra bulb has been running now over 7 years continuously in my dining room as a night light.
I've never turned it off.
A 60W Philips in the living room, installed 5 years ago, is as bright today as it was new, and it's on every night for 5 hours.
Same goes for another one, 40W, in the upstairs hallway - on from 6PM to 2AM every night.
To my eyes, they light the same as original incandescents.
Oh, and my patio lights in the garden - I got tired of changing those 12V bulbs - The Philips LED replacements are brighter, and been in use every evening (for 8 hrs) for 10 years now.
AND...... my electric bill has been lower ever since!
I haven't had to change any of them yet, and it's been years using them.
One bulb, a Philips 15 watt equiv.,which draws only 3 watts candelabra bulb has been running now over 7 years continuously in my dining room as a night light.
I've never turned it off.
A 60W Philips in the living room, installed 5 years ago, is as bright today as it was new, and it's on every night for 5 hours.
Same goes for another one, 40W, in the upstairs hallway - on from 6PM to 2AM every night.
To my eyes, they light the same as original incandescents.
Oh, and my patio lights in the garden - I got tired of changing those 12V bulbs - The Philips LED replacements are brighter, and been in use every evening (for 8 hrs) for 10 years now.
AND...... my electric bill has been lower ever since!
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What I realy love is buying leds on Ebay . 12v at 800ma on Ebay is 15W don't you just love chinese new math !
Best to get known brand of LED's to be sure to get somewhat good enough color rendering lighting, poor CRI makes the home environment and everything look like shite.
Color rendering index - Wikipedia
Color rendering index - Wikipedia
Yes, and cost savings is one benefit, consider also the lumen output per watt consumed and also the generated heat.
You must be meaning edison screw or bayonet fitted 'bulbs. If you can, consider ceiling mounted down lights. Light emits from one 90mm dia flat panel with a fixed beam angle and have a larger 'back half' to accommodate heat dissipation, yet they dont generate 'heat', regulation here says that insulation batting can be fitted direct over top of the back of the light, they plug into a standard AC outlet.
They are available with temp select 3k, 4k, 5k7 (switch on the side), can be used with a dimmer, 9W consumption for 900lm and come with a 4 year warranty. Typical price is US$12 per. For 9ft ceiling and 90 degree beam angle, 1.8M spacing between each fitting is about right.
In the USA and possibly other places - many of you must remember strolling thru the Lighting aisles at the big box hardware stores with 100s of light on display. Remember how hot it was there? And they had extra air handling to help remove the heat.
Walk thru there now and heat is not a problem. It's quite noticeable.
TV studios went quickly to LED lighting for many reason, one being considerably reduced cooling costs.
Of course those of you who live in the frozen north may not see this as an advantage. 😉
Walk thru there now and heat is not a problem. It's quite noticeable.
TV studios went quickly to LED lighting for many reason, one being considerably reduced cooling costs.
Of course those of you who live in the frozen north may not see this as an advantage. 😉
5 or 6 years ago I designed a lighting retrofit for a hospital, conversion from CFL to LED. A lot of the "architectural" led's had heat sinks that looked like they could dissipate 200W. Many power supplies were poorly designed and put half wave rectification on the line resulting in very poor power factor. With all these reactive loads the power companies put capacitance back on the line. Bottom line: you are using less power but paying more for it. Now a few years latter led's are much better and the choice of spectrum is better.
Love LED bulbs. Fixes so many problems. 60W incandescent too dim? Shove a 100W equiv LED bulb in there. Halogen keeps burning out? Shove an LED replacement in there. Want a dusk-to-dawn security light but concerned about cost? LED bulbs. Putting up a shallow or recessed light fixture not rated for the 60C NM wire in your older house? Just slap it up, no problem (although I bet most homeowners ignored the latter detail anyway).
I only like LEDs partially.
In my wood panel living room ceiling there are 12 MR16 / GU5.3 / GU10 (convertible) spotlights that I can switch and dim in 5 groups via a wireless remote control (ELV-FS20).
My few previous attempts to replace them with appropriate LEDs have failed miserably.
The 230V Philips Glowdim LED models that I have tried cannot be switched off electronically. They continue to glow afterwards.
It is stated in the manufacturer's data sheet, but unfortunately there was no indication on the packaging. 😱
2 parallel-connected 12V Osram dim LED models can be switched off electronically but have different ignition times when they are switched on again.
The dimming itself now looks stepped with all of them, which was not noticeable with the old halogen lamps.
Incidentally, the old halogen spotlights were brighter and had a "better" more pleasant light.
Of course, my dimmers are not in any compatibility list and the dimmers that are listed do not correspond to what I have in mind.
With the old lamps, I could remote switch on/off and the programmed groups that were addressed gently increased or decreased to the preset brightness.
Even with using the main switch they came to the brightness that was used before switching them off.
If I dim the old halogen completely down, only the filament glow can be seen. The LEDs don't go down that far and still give off too much light.
It is difficult to find something new because I only have a very limited ceiling installation depth. Most commercially available 230V dimmable GU10 LEDs just snug fit, and the 5 dimmers themselves only have limited space behind a wall cladding.
Newer systems also seem to only rely on app control and therefore no longer have a "real" remote control.
In addition, it would be nice to find a solution that is future-proof so that when you buy a replacement LED spotlight you don't have to go through data sheets and compatibility lists.
In the kitchen I used to have a 100W globe-shaped incandescent lamp, after 2 attempts to have the same brightness with 13 W LEDs, I decided not to invest any more money there and bought additional lighting under the kitchen wall units.
In the basement, I exchanged a defective fluorescent tube for an LED model. The light that was previously emitted upwards and reflected back is now also missing because these LED tubes do not have 360° radiation.
My sister has some Led spotlights in the kitchen, the first of which gave up a few days ago after an estimated 200-300 hours of use, despite very good ventilation. Nearly free hanging without case.
A month ago I bought 20 new Halogen MR 16...
In my wood panel living room ceiling there are 12 MR16 / GU5.3 / GU10 (convertible) spotlights that I can switch and dim in 5 groups via a wireless remote control (ELV-FS20).
My few previous attempts to replace them with appropriate LEDs have failed miserably.
The 230V Philips Glowdim LED models that I have tried cannot be switched off electronically. They continue to glow afterwards.
It is stated in the manufacturer's data sheet, but unfortunately there was no indication on the packaging. 😱
2 parallel-connected 12V Osram dim LED models can be switched off electronically but have different ignition times when they are switched on again.
The dimming itself now looks stepped with all of them, which was not noticeable with the old halogen lamps.
Incidentally, the old halogen spotlights were brighter and had a "better" more pleasant light.
Of course, my dimmers are not in any compatibility list and the dimmers that are listed do not correspond to what I have in mind.
With the old lamps, I could remote switch on/off and the programmed groups that were addressed gently increased or decreased to the preset brightness.
Even with using the main switch they came to the brightness that was used before switching them off.
If I dim the old halogen completely down, only the filament glow can be seen. The LEDs don't go down that far and still give off too much light.
It is difficult to find something new because I only have a very limited ceiling installation depth. Most commercially available 230V dimmable GU10 LEDs just snug fit, and the 5 dimmers themselves only have limited space behind a wall cladding.
Newer systems also seem to only rely on app control and therefore no longer have a "real" remote control.
In addition, it would be nice to find a solution that is future-proof so that when you buy a replacement LED spotlight you don't have to go through data sheets and compatibility lists.
In the kitchen I used to have a 100W globe-shaped incandescent lamp, after 2 attempts to have the same brightness with 13 W LEDs, I decided not to invest any more money there and bought additional lighting under the kitchen wall units.
In the basement, I exchanged a defective fluorescent tube for an LED model. The light that was previously emitted upwards and reflected back is now also missing because these LED tubes do not have 360° radiation.
My sister has some Led spotlights in the kitchen, the first of which gave up a few days ago after an estimated 200-300 hours of use, despite very good ventilation. Nearly free hanging without case.
A month ago I bought 20 new Halogen MR 16...
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About a year ago, I changed over the under-cabinet flickering flourescents to LED strips.
Had to build a simple DC dimmer supply for them, they ran on 31V(dimmed) to 34V(bright).
Wow what a difference, and the PS only draws 35 watts max, yet all 4 strips under the cabinets put out 4700 lumens (about 300W eqiv) of nice white light.
Had to build a simple DC dimmer supply for them, they ran on 31V(dimmed) to 34V(bright).
Wow what a difference, and the PS only draws 35 watts max, yet all 4 strips under the cabinets put out 4700 lumens (about 300W eqiv) of nice white light.
I solved it in a somehow similar way. My, 500 lumen each, 4 LED strips came with a power supply and a proximity switch for doors in the set. It reacts well to my hand so that I can switch the light with a simple movement of my hand at the right place. In addition, the strips have separate switches. Only the power supply has non and is inaccessible without a ladder. So now I waste some standby energy.
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Some LED lamps used, and perhaps some still do use switch-mode power supplies. That's a problem because besides creating EMC noise, they are not compatible with dimmers.
My favorites are just a series string of LEDs and a small linear regulator, and of course, a rectifier. I can buy a pair of 800 lumen Sunbeam lamps at the dollar store, that's $0.50 each, and they are dimmable and I have had none fail. The larger dollar store LEDs (1500 lumens) are not dimmable and you only get one for a dollar. I have had Ikea and other PWM LEDs fail, and paid a lot more for them.
If I need more light, I use a lamp splitter, Y-socket. More than 1500 lumen lamps are a lot more money. I did that in the garage. Six 800 lumen lamps in a bathroom is nice and bright so it's a good thing they are dimmable. I replaced the kitchen recessed lamps with LEDs some time ago but they use 60Hz transformers that produce a noticeable hum at night when it's quiet. At least the heat problem is gone. Note that many lamps are no longer compatible with incandescent lamps because they are made of plastic.
I am aware that CLF and LED lamps are not a continuous spectrum of light, how ever it has not been a problem.
I also have a LED work-light. If you have ever burnt yourself on a halogen work-light, then you will appreciate the cool running LEDs. And if you have ever dropped incandescent or CFL lamps, you will appreciate how rugged LEDs are.
I still have a couple CFL yard lights, waiting for them to die as they are not rated for outdoor use, and they are dim in the cold. American cities do not use as many residential street lights as in Canada so better neighborhoods run their yard lights all night making the efficiency of LEDs a great feature.
LED auto tail-light replacement lamps can be a problem because the flasher and/or the computer expects the current drain of incandescent lamps. This means they flash too fast and/or the computer detects a "failed" lamp. You can buy load resistors to imitate incandescent lamps but that sort of defeats the purpose.
My favorites are just a series string of LEDs and a small linear regulator, and of course, a rectifier. I can buy a pair of 800 lumen Sunbeam lamps at the dollar store, that's $0.50 each, and they are dimmable and I have had none fail. The larger dollar store LEDs (1500 lumens) are not dimmable and you only get one for a dollar. I have had Ikea and other PWM LEDs fail, and paid a lot more for them.
If I need more light, I use a lamp splitter, Y-socket. More than 1500 lumen lamps are a lot more money. I did that in the garage. Six 800 lumen lamps in a bathroom is nice and bright so it's a good thing they are dimmable. I replaced the kitchen recessed lamps with LEDs some time ago but they use 60Hz transformers that produce a noticeable hum at night when it's quiet. At least the heat problem is gone. Note that many lamps are no longer compatible with incandescent lamps because they are made of plastic.
I am aware that CLF and LED lamps are not a continuous spectrum of light, how ever it has not been a problem.
I also have a LED work-light. If you have ever burnt yourself on a halogen work-light, then you will appreciate the cool running LEDs. And if you have ever dropped incandescent or CFL lamps, you will appreciate how rugged LEDs are.
I still have a couple CFL yard lights, waiting for them to die as they are not rated for outdoor use, and they are dim in the cold. American cities do not use as many residential street lights as in Canada so better neighborhoods run their yard lights all night making the efficiency of LEDs a great feature.
LED auto tail-light replacement lamps can be a problem because the flasher and/or the computer expects the current drain of incandescent lamps. This means they flash too fast and/or the computer detects a "failed" lamp. You can buy load resistors to imitate incandescent lamps but that sort of defeats the purpose.