Hi All ,
This is my first and very cheap 2 way build and I have Monacor HT22 tweeters and Mark Audio CHP70.2 for woofers .
I am planning a small 8 litre bass reflex crossed at 3khz . Just wondering if anyone can help with the crossover design .
Thanks Simon
Markaudio CHP-70 Gen2 Natural Paper
Monacor :: Monacor HT-22/8 PS6.46
This is my first and very cheap 2 way build and I have Monacor HT22 tweeters and Mark Audio CHP70.2 for woofers .
I am planning a small 8 litre bass reflex crossed at 3khz . Just wondering if anyone can help with the crossover design .
Thanks Simon
Markaudio CHP-70 Gen2 Natural Paper
Monacor :: Monacor HT-22/8 PS6.46
Online calculator will not give decent results.
Contact Scott. He has done lots of work with these drivers and might have some XO suggestions.
dave
Contact Scott. He has done lots of work with these drivers and might have some XO suggestions.
dave
You can get a design from Michael Chua at ampslab too:
Markaudio CHP-70-P Gen2 with Audax TW010E1 – AmpsLab
He'll send you a circuit if you email or PM him.
Having the bass circuit right must be half the battle. As planet10 (Dave) says, that online circuit won't do the right things. You'll need some bass boost aka bafflestep too. Then probably a resistor or two to adjust tweeter level.Not hard.
I have used that tweeter a lot.
That's about 3.5 kHz crossover with an 87dB 8" bass. Sounds OK. You will probably need more attenuation with a smaller 85dB fullranger. And likely positive polarity.
Markaudio CHP-70-P Gen2 with Audax TW010E1 – AmpsLab
He'll send you a circuit if you email or PM him.
Having the bass circuit right must be half the battle. As planet10 (Dave) says, that online circuit won't do the right things. You'll need some bass boost aka bafflestep too. Then probably a resistor or two to adjust tweeter level.Not hard.
I have used that tweeter a lot.
That's about 3.5 kHz crossover with an 87dB 8" bass. Sounds OK. You will probably need more attenuation with a smaller 85dB fullranger. And likely positive polarity.
Depends on the box he puts them in (and where the boxes are put). There are more than a few that need no LF filter.
IMO, BSC is overused.
dave
That’s great info thanks !
I will message Scott and also Michael Chau .
Can BSC can be added to the circuit later on ?
Also I am assuming the changing the polarity of the tweeter is just a question of swapping the + and the - wires to the terminals .
Cheers Simon
I will message Scott and also Michael Chau .
Can BSC can be added to the circuit later on ?
Also I am assuming the changing the polarity of the tweeter is just a question of swapping the + and the - wires to the terminals .
Cheers Simon
These are probably planet10 designs anyway!
CHP-70-P Gen. 2 Full Range audio driver | KJF Audio
The "Golden Ratio, baffle reflex Box" looks quite close to your plans. 10L reflex. Always good to let someone else do most of the work! 😱
CHP-70-P Gen. 2 Full Range audio driver | KJF Audio
The "Golden Ratio, baffle reflex Box" looks quite close to your plans. 10L reflex. Always good to let someone else do most of the work! 😱
I would not do the 1st 2 without looking at the details.
The last 3 would either have my drawings (of Scott’s, mine, and maybe a few others) or Sciott’s preliminary sketches.
Max performance would likely come from Frugel-Horn Mk3, optimum relex is 9-10 litres, the full size miniOnkens are 9 litres). Will fit into 4.7 litres.
dave
Well, Dave, KJF are giving away that Frugel-Horn Mk III! £230 plus tax in the UK.
Frugel Horn Mk 3 DIY speaker kit | KJF Audio
We need a hobby in these grim times. 😡
Can't be hard to add a tweeter...
Frugel Horn Mk 3 DIY speaker kit | KJF Audio
We need a hobby in these grim times. 😡
Can't be hard to add a tweeter...
Yes, that is a bargain. Well made, proper plywood, superb speakers (i am guessing well into the many 1000s made by now).
dave
dave
“ Always good to let someone else do most of the work! “
Truly the guiding principal of my adult life ��
I Think a simple bass reflex better suits my space and budget .
Looking at Steves circuit for an 87db driver , could the tweeter be attenuated by another 2db as a quick fix for my speakers ?
I will go ahead with the cabinet first and order parts for the crossover later .
I was getting ahead of myself thinking that the World may ran out of capacitors and instead it’s toilet roll that is in short supply.....
Cheers Simon
__________________
Truly the guiding principal of my adult life ��
I Think a simple bass reflex better suits my space and budget .
Looking at Steves circuit for an 87db driver , could the tweeter be attenuated by another 2db as a quick fix for my speakers ?
I will go ahead with the cabinet first and order parts for the crossover later .
I was getting ahead of myself thinking that the World may ran out of capacitors and instead it’s toilet roll that is in short supply.....
Cheers Simon
__________________
I never thought about this combo, but have messed with both drivers in the past. I made a quick sim with the frd and zma files i had. This will probally be better than any online calc, but to do it real good you need to measure the drivers in the box. But to give you an id...
This is a quick sim, it could probally be tuned better, especially with measurements from the box itself. Use at own risk.
This is a quick sim, it could probally be tuned better, especially with measurements from the box itself. Use at own risk.
Attachments
I just had a go at this one, like waxx.
But using my own dubious methods.
I got pretty much the same result. Negative polarity first order electrical slopes and a 2kHz crossover. Even tried it with a series crossover.
I don't like that much. I don't think that Monacor HT22 cone tweeter will sound good on first order electrical. I want to see how Michael Chua got this working.
Loudspeaker Projects – Passive, Active & Time Aligned – AmpsLab
Because I have a horrible feeling these particular drivers won't play nicely together.
It's a huge job and more expense, but I'd much more fancy a small 3" MarkAudio CHN-50 fullranger (in a little 1L enclosure of its own),
with a bit of top end ability here to match the bigger 5" CHP-70-P Gen 2 fullranger:
CHN-50 full range driver | KJF Audio
I know planet10 has some experience of this sort of thing. What do you think, Dave? I'm struggling.
But using my own dubious methods.
I got pretty much the same result. Negative polarity first order electrical slopes and a 2kHz crossover. Even tried it with a series crossover.
I don't like that much. I don't think that Monacor HT22 cone tweeter will sound good on first order electrical. I want to see how Michael Chua got this working.
Loudspeaker Projects – Passive, Active & Time Aligned – AmpsLab
Because I have a horrible feeling these particular drivers won't play nicely together.
It's a huge job and more expense, but I'd much more fancy a small 3" MarkAudio CHN-50 fullranger (in a little 1L enclosure of its own),
with a bit of top end ability here to match the bigger 5" CHP-70-P Gen 2 fullranger:
CHN-50 full range driver | KJF Audio
I know planet10 has some experience of this sort of thing. What do you think, Dave? I'm struggling.
Well, I'm not Dave but I was the responsible designer (within the company requirements) for the commercial Markaudio-Sota speakers, so I'd gravitate toward the CHN-50 as well, as it's related to (though not the same as) the Sota 5 midtweeter we used for the MA-S speakers. Although I don't see a major issue with the HT-22/8; depends on what you're aiming to achieve of course.
One point I'd note: with either midtweet, but particularly the CHN-50, if you aim for a relatively conventional XO frequency, I'd be a bit careful about targeting a flat midband response. Some degree of Harwood / BBC style midband EQ can often be useful. Without it, if your midtweet and main driver have similar polar responses through and some way above the transition band, they can sound like they have an excess of output in this region.
One point I'd note: with either midtweet, but particularly the CHN-50, if you aim for a relatively conventional XO frequency, I'd be a bit careful about targeting a flat midband response. Some degree of Harwood / BBC style midband EQ can often be useful. Without it, if your midtweet and main driver have similar polar responses through and some way above the transition band, they can sound like they have an excess of output in this region.
That tweeter is ok, but it's not an easy fit on this CH70 that is true. A first order is what i always try first, but not possible with this combo (not serial and not parallel). It really needs a 2nd order parallel with resistors on the parallel parts to change the slope and phase of the driver to make it fit.
A dedicated midbass is maybe a better option if you want to use this tweeter. An SB13PFC25-4 (about 35€) would be a better fit i think. But the OP already has the drivers, so we need to do it with what we got, an HT22 tweeter and a CH70 fullrange driver.
We might be in an unusual situation here with what looked like a simple sort of project from Simon aka sk971.
I think, on consideration, it's a stinker! 😀
I have a pretty good time with an 8" bass and this Monacor HT-22/8 tweeter:
Crossover like this:
Sounds good to me. About 3kHz, 4th order (24 dB per octave) slopes.
Actually works a bit better, IMO, with a bit of HF rolloff. Which may be what Scott is talking about. And he knows more than me, because he builds this stuff.
Thing is, a closed back cone tweeter is not the same animal as a fullranger in a big enclosure.
This is what the Monacor HT-22/8 does on frequency response:
planet10 shared this splendid design not long ago:
These are fullrangers. Much flatter. And doubtless using shallower slopes. But without a filter, I am lost. 😱
I think, on consideration, it's a stinker! 😀
I have a pretty good time with an 8" bass and this Monacor HT-22/8 tweeter:
Crossover like this:
Sounds good to me. About 3kHz, 4th order (24 dB per octave) slopes.
Actually works a bit better, IMO, with a bit of HF rolloff. Which may be what Scott is talking about. And he knows more than me, because he builds this stuff.
Thing is, a closed back cone tweeter is not the same animal as a fullranger in a big enclosure.
This is what the Monacor HT-22/8 does on frequency response:
planet10 shared this splendid design not long ago:
These are fullrangers. Much flatter. And doubtless using shallower slopes. But without a filter, I am lost. 😱
Oh dear , and there I was thinking these two drivers might be birds of a feather, looks like there is more to this than meets the eye ����
Not many pounds spent anyway and I can save the tweeters for a new project.
I do have some Fountek FR58EX 2” full range 82db 8ohm could these be used instead of the tweeters , maybe without BSC ?
Fountek FR58EX 2" Neodymium Full Range Speaker Driver
Cheers Simon
Not many pounds spent anyway and I can save the tweeters for a new project.
I do have some Fountek FR58EX 2” full range 82db 8ohm could these be used instead of the tweeters , maybe without BSC ?
Fountek FR58EX 2" Neodymium Full Range Speaker Driver
Cheers Simon
That tweeter is only 82.5dB efficient, your FR 85dB, so that won't work. Tweeter always need to be more efficient to the woofer when using a passive crossover. A tweeter can be attenuated in the crossover, a woofer not as it draws to much current.
No, it is better than 82dB in the area that counts.
I think you might find your way Home here, Simon! 🙂
Whatever possessed you to buy these babies? Inspiration at some level. 😀
Fountek FR58EX 2" Neodymium Full Range Speaker Driver
IMO. they look more like 85dB loudness. And flat as anything.
Reason the cheapish Monacor HT-22/8 are struggling is we like to match slopes, otherwise Phase can go wonky:
But really, if I haven't lost my touch, those Fountek FR58EX will do a splendid top end job with those 5" fullrangers. They will need some sort of enclosure, being open-back, to avoid bass interaction. Probably 1/2 L box with a bit of woolly stuffing based on the Vas.
But doable, IMO. At least, I'd take it on confident I can fix it.
I think you might find your way Home here, Simon! 🙂
Whatever possessed you to buy these babies? Inspiration at some level. 😀
Fountek FR58EX 2" Neodymium Full Range Speaker Driver
IMO. they look more like 85dB loudness. And flat as anything.
Reason the cheapish Monacor HT-22/8 are struggling is we like to match slopes, otherwise Phase can go wonky:
But really, if I haven't lost my touch, those Fountek FR58EX will do a splendid top end job with those 5" fullrangers. They will need some sort of enclosure, being open-back, to avoid bass interaction. Probably 1/2 L box with a bit of woolly stuffing based on the Vas.
But doable, IMO. At least, I'd take it on confident I can fix it.
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