Bit of a long shot. I am looking to get some older speakers to try out various tweaks. One of the speakers I was looking at is the Mordaunt Short MS10. Well rated in it's day. My question concerns the fact that there are 2 versions, quite distinct. One has a smaller round main driver, the other has a squared driver, which was popular with various makers (JPW Sonata driver looks the same.) Has anyone heard the smaller driver version. They come up for sale, but I cannot find any reference to them. Please note this is not about the MS10i in it's various guises.
I once owned MS10s and good little speakers they were. I was astonished at how well balanced they were in the bass and treble for their diminutive size. I replaced them with the larger High Definition Series MS100s which are still in use today.
My MS10s were the early versions which had the round frame bass/midrange driver with a blue paper cone. The round frame version was sourced from an outside manufacturer (Audax?) while the square frame version was the made in-house by MS and used in the later versions.
A word of caution if you are after the round frame version as the surround is foam and will have perished by now. The square frame version has a butyl rubber surround. The rubber surrounds of the similar drivers in my MS100s show no prospect of deteriorating.
I would advise you to search out the later square frame version.
My MS10s were the early versions which had the round frame bass/midrange driver with a blue paper cone. The round frame version was sourced from an outside manufacturer (Audax?) while the square frame version was the made in-house by MS and used in the later versions.
A word of caution if you are after the round frame version as the surround is foam and will have perished by now. The square frame version has a butyl rubber surround. The rubber surrounds of the similar drivers in my MS100s show no prospect of deteriorating.
I would advise you to search out the later square frame version.
Agree with the rubber surround preference. There are still plenty of tweaks to be done but those are best applied to something good to start with. I loaned my pair to someone and I miss them.
Hello, I have a Mordaunt Short MS30i pair.
I was pleased with these speakers until recently I heard a different pair of speakers on my system (these are a two way speakers made in Greece by a company called Audio Spectrum, the model is S20 that uses some SEAS drivers).
So I found that there was more air and the mid frequencies sounded more open too and they were playing a bit louder too. But the highs were more emphasized (that I didn't like that much by the way).
I was almost ready to change the mordaunt shorts when I thought to take a look at the crossover...
As I already knew these have a really simple crossover. I discovered that behind the speakers connectors are 4uF BP Electrolytic capacitors one on each speaker crossover.
I measured them with my cheap capacitometer and they were measuring more like a 4,7uF.
Thankfully I had purchased some of the PETP K73-16 capacitors in the past, that are being praised a lot for their price/quality ratio...
I've changed them immediately. Connected them on my system and instantly got the air that was missing and mid frequencies got more definition. Before was more "muffled". Now they sound more like the S20.
The truth is that I like now a bit more the MS30i than the S20 speakers in mid frequencies...
Bass and high fequencies seem unchanged after the mod.
So, IMO this a worthly upgrade for the MS series and it feels like you get a different (and a better) speaker for a small price...!
I was pleased with these speakers until recently I heard a different pair of speakers on my system (these are a two way speakers made in Greece by a company called Audio Spectrum, the model is S20 that uses some SEAS drivers).
So I found that there was more air and the mid frequencies sounded more open too and they were playing a bit louder too. But the highs were more emphasized (that I didn't like that much by the way).
I was almost ready to change the mordaunt shorts when I thought to take a look at the crossover...
As I already knew these have a really simple crossover. I discovered that behind the speakers connectors are 4uF BP Electrolytic capacitors one on each speaker crossover.
I measured them with my cheap capacitometer and they were measuring more like a 4,7uF.
Thankfully I had purchased some of the PETP K73-16 capacitors in the past, that are being praised a lot for their price/quality ratio...
I've changed them immediately. Connected them on my system and instantly got the air that was missing and mid frequencies got more definition. Before was more "muffled". Now they sound more like the S20.
The truth is that I like now a bit more the MS30i than the S20 speakers in mid frequencies...
Bass and high fequencies seem unchanged after the mod.
So, IMO this a worthly upgrade for the MS series and it feels like you get a different (and a better) speaker for a small price...!
Yes theologos, the MS series speakers (MS10, MS15, MS25, MS35 etc.) from the late 1980s are eminently tweakable, a capacitor upgrade being the first port of call.
I also like to get rid of the 'Positec' protection devices where fitted, as they were in my MS100s.
I also like to get rid of the 'Positec' protection devices where fitted, as they were in my MS100s.
Positec is an overload protection? The series that my speakers are not equiped with that protection (I suppose). Any other tweaks to propose? Thank you.
Your MS30i speakers actually belong to a later series (perhaps 10 years later) than the series which started with the MS10 speaker - the original subject of this thread - a series which included the ported MS30.
The Positec overload protection would appear to apply only to the earlier series.
Your MS30i has a sealed enclosure. If it is simply filled with BAF wadding, then it is worth experimenting with other absorbent materials like wool.
Loudspeaker Cabinet Damping Materials
The Positec overload protection would appear to apply only to the earlier series.
Your MS30i has a sealed enclosure. If it is simply filled with BAF wadding, then it is worth experimenting with other absorbent materials like wool.
Loudspeaker Cabinet Damping Materials
For interested parties, the specifications of the MSi series can be found here:
https://audio-occasion.qc.ca/pdf/manuels/MordauntShort_MSS_e.pdf
The specifications of the earlier MS series can be found here:
https://www.usahifi.com/sites/defau...manuals/Mordaunt-Short MS Series Brochure.pdf
https://audio-occasion.qc.ca/pdf/manuels/MordauntShort_MSS_e.pdf
The specifications of the earlier MS series can be found here:
https://www.usahifi.com/sites/defau...manuals/Mordaunt-Short MS Series Brochure.pdf
Really interesting posting for various damping materials...
In my speakers the back and on top is covered only with (as it seems) BAF Wadding.
Other speakers have damping on all sides too. Like the spekaers I've tested and compared to (the S20). Why did they choose minimum damping, is this sufficient?
I know my knowledge is really limited.
I appreciate the information you provide,
Also MS(i) series seemed to be a bit pricey when came out... Maybe they kept some "tweaks" for the "pearl" models (as I have read somewhere else like "tweaked crossovers").
In my speakers the back and on top is covered only with (as it seems) BAF Wadding.
Other speakers have damping on all sides too. Like the spekaers I've tested and compared to (the S20). Why did they choose minimum damping, is this sufficient?
I know my knowledge is really limited.
I appreciate the information you provide,
Also MS(i) series seemed to be a bit pricey when came out... Maybe they kept some "tweaks" for the "pearl" models (as I have read somewhere else like "tweaked crossovers").
The major cost to a loudspeaker manufacturer is the loudspeaker cabinet itself. Costs are often cut elsewhere by using cheap electrolytic capacitors in the crossover and the minimum amount of cheap BAF wadding for damping.
Since the MS30i speakers are sealed (not ported) then it is worth experimenting with the type and amount of damping material inside the cabinets.
Sealed enclosures are usually loosely filled with an absorbent material such as wool. Wool is superior in its sound absorbent qualities to man-made materials such as BAF because of the random orientation of its fibres.
There is no formula for damping, the fine tuning has to be done by ear.
Natural Acoustics Loudspeaker Wool - The Woolly Shepherd
Since the MS30i speakers are sealed (not ported) then it is worth experimenting with the type and amount of damping material inside the cabinets.
Sealed enclosures are usually loosely filled with an absorbent material such as wool. Wool is superior in its sound absorbent qualities to man-made materials such as BAF because of the random orientation of its fibres.
There is no formula for damping, the fine tuning has to be done by ear.
Natural Acoustics Loudspeaker Wool - The Woolly Shepherd
I picked up some MS15 a while back, about 10L closed box with 5" woofer and an Audax tweeter:
Component view looked like this:
Crossover like this:
I just checked the coils, and the tweeter coil is aircore 0.25mH. Original capacitor was 3.3uF NP.
Very rough sim of how it worked here:
I improved the panel damping with rubbery regupol. Not a great speaker, harsh sound. Problem is there is no room for a bigger tweeter than about 70mm. I suppose I could have another go these days. I left it at this:
Component view looked like this:
Crossover like this:
I just checked the coils, and the tweeter coil is aircore 0.25mH. Original capacitor was 3.3uF NP.
Very rough sim of how it worked here:
I improved the panel damping with rubbery regupol. Not a great speaker, harsh sound. Problem is there is no room for a bigger tweeter than about 70mm. I suppose I could have another go these days. I left it at this:
The MS15 was developed from the deeper cabineted, real wood veneered and more expensive MS100, which I have in my collection.
Both provide a great basis for learning and experimentation.
I've had great fun tweaking my MS100s. I've replaced the tweeter (a Monacor DT-75 dome fits the available space), played around with the tweeter crossover (the bass/mid on the MS100, for better or worse, is intended to run full range) and have just replaced the damping material (yet again!). 🙂
Both provide a great basis for learning and experimentation.
I've had great fun tweaking my MS100s. I've replaced the tweeter (a Monacor DT-75 dome fits the available space), played around with the tweeter crossover (the bass/mid on the MS100, for better or worse, is intended to run full range) and have just replaced the damping material (yet again!). 🙂
Hope we're not hijacking the thread too much.
That Monacor looks OK!
Monacor :: Monacor DT-75/8
My woofer is marked 180NS10, an Elac I guess. Nice driver. 1" voicecoil and rubber dustcap as was Elac's wont in those days. I don't find it in a datasheet I got at Falcon.
I was treating it as a 6" driver then. But really a 115mm cone is nearer a 5". I wonder if I should try that big capacitor trick on the woofer to improve the bass in the tiny box? You know, around 330uF.
Where have you got to on a crossover so far, Galu?
That Monacor looks OK!
Monacor :: Monacor DT-75/8
My woofer is marked 180NS10, an Elac I guess. Nice driver. 1" voicecoil and rubber dustcap as was Elac's wont in those days. I don't find it in a datasheet I got at Falcon.
I was treating it as a 6" driver then. But really a 115mm cone is nearer a 5". I wonder if I should try that big capacitor trick on the woofer to improve the bass in the tiny box? You know, around 330uF.
Where have you got to on a crossover so far, Galu?
Attachments
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Hi Steve!
Theologos has said his knowledge is limited and he appreciates the information provided, so I don't think we're hijacking the thread too much.
I'm working on some information I have re the MS100 bass/mid driver etc. and will post it soon.
Theologos has said his knowledge is limited and he appreciates the information provided, so I don't think we're hijacking the thread too much.
I'm working on some information I have re the MS100 bass/mid driver etc. and will post it soon.
P.S. I tried the big capacitor trick (500uF), but obtained no improvement in the bass and have reverted to normal.
Steve, if you look you will see that theologos has re-opened an old thread relating to the MS10, so we are well on thread here.
According to my Mordaunt Short brochure from the late 1980s, the company "remains prominent among those few specialist manufacturers who maintain a substantial 'in house' facility for the development of their own (mid/bass) drive units."
The label on the magnet of my MS100 mid/bass drivers states:
MADE IN THE UK
180NS10
127 6 ohm
And the brochure refers to the driver as MSB165 - yes, the same driver as in the MS15!
The evidence would suggest that this is not an Elac driver. The JPW Sonata Elac driver does look similar, but has a smaller dustcap - see attachments.
The cone diameter is 5" measured between the mid points of the roll surround (or 4.5" if I measure the diameter of the cone itself).
The original MS100 crossover specs were:
Integration frequency 5kHz. Low pass characteristic inherent in mid/bass unit initially approximately 6dB/octave. High pass approximately 12dB/octave.
I removed the fixed resistors in the tweeter crossover and replaced them with an 8 ohm L-pad. I have reduced the overlap between the mid/bass and the tweeter by moving the high pass filter to 6kHz, 12dB/octave and the drivers appear to integrate well. The speakers were a bit 'shouty' before.
As a crossover expert, you will no doubt want to tell me how to make these little beauties sing!
P.S. Cabinet dimensions approximately 9" x 13" x 7.5" deep (excluding grill).
According to my Mordaunt Short brochure from the late 1980s, the company "remains prominent among those few specialist manufacturers who maintain a substantial 'in house' facility for the development of their own (mid/bass) drive units."
The label on the magnet of my MS100 mid/bass drivers states:
MADE IN THE UK
180NS10
127 6 ohm
And the brochure refers to the driver as MSB165 - yes, the same driver as in the MS15!
The evidence would suggest that this is not an Elac driver. The JPW Sonata Elac driver does look similar, but has a smaller dustcap - see attachments.
The cone diameter is 5" measured between the mid points of the roll surround (or 4.5" if I measure the diameter of the cone itself).
The original MS100 crossover specs were:
Integration frequency 5kHz. Low pass characteristic inherent in mid/bass unit initially approximately 6dB/octave. High pass approximately 12dB/octave.
I removed the fixed resistors in the tweeter crossover and replaced them with an 8 ohm L-pad. I have reduced the overlap between the mid/bass and the tweeter by moving the high pass filter to 6kHz, 12dB/octave and the drivers appear to integrate well. The speakers were a bit 'shouty' before.
As a crossover expert, you will no doubt want to tell me how to make these little beauties sing!
P.S. Cabinet dimensions approximately 9" x 13" x 7.5" deep (excluding grill).
