Thought I would share this find...
Duelund 8" Precision Audio Driver | Hifi Collective
Parts Connexion is among those carrying it, $500.
Response looks a great deal like a Scanspeak Revelator (a good thing) and construction kind of reminds me of the Special Edition 2-way kits they put together.
Best,
E
Duelund 8" Precision Audio Driver | Hifi Collective
Parts Connexion is among those carrying it, $500.
Response looks a great deal like a Scanspeak Revelator (a good thing) and construction kind of reminds me of the Special Edition 2-way kits they put together.
Best,
E
I see a pic of a Duelund driver, but the bottom pics seems to use a significantly smaller mid than this 8"
It's a roughish rendering; looks like he is building two designs using this driver. Mms of 6 grams is impressive. So's the price
This is what I use in a 2 way
Ciare HW176 | Altoparlanti home e professional - Woofer e Midwoofer 8 Ohm :: RG Sound Store ::
Nothing fancy, just robust & good sounding
Ciare HW176 | Altoparlanti home e professional - Woofer e Midwoofer 8 Ohm :: RG Sound Store ::
Nothing fancy, just robust & good sounding
Actually I got details of that humble duelund build link wrong. The dueland build renders are the 2 above pic of driver.. Sorry about that
This is basicly a Scan Speak 21W/8554 with a huge magnetic system, it is designed many years ago by Scan Speak together with Steen Duelund. For his low Q speaker designs (sealed box). The yellow kevlar cone and surround is coated with black coat. The new thing is the wood phaseplug. I expect the rest of the design is the same.
Yeah, you are all right about the price, but if you are selling a $20k two way, you need a differentiating driver, and this would do it.
No, I'm not saying it is good for us at all. 🙂
Best,
E
No, I'm not saying it is good for us at all. 🙂
Best,
E
I dunno.. What i see is an old school yellow kevlar cone and wooden plug. The basket isnt exactly state of art either. For that price there are top line neo accutons and the new elliptical scan..
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Bill,
Not disagreeing there either. But manufacturers need products that are differentiated, that armchair (i.e. non) speaker builders aren't going to go price shopping for.
Best,
E
Not disagreeing there either. But manufacturers need products that are differentiated, that armchair (i.e. non) speaker builders aren't going to go price shopping for.
Best,
E
let's not forget this is a brand name not shy about asking "carriage trade" prices for passive crossover and high voltage capacitors - you know, "sir, if you have to ask the price..."
I mean, over $500 ea for 2mf @100V CAST Hybrid Cu/Ag caps? Those are prices that make their 5W premium CAST resistors seem a bloody bargain by comparison.
Eric, given any type of multiplier over total production costs, think you might have missed one decimal point for retail pricing on speakers using such units, and presumably Dueland crossover parts as well? 😱
I mean, over $500 ea for 2mf @100V CAST Hybrid Cu/Ag caps? Those are prices that make their 5W premium CAST resistors seem a bloody bargain by comparison.
Eric, given any type of multiplier over total production costs, think you might have missed one decimal point for retail pricing on speakers using such units, and presumably Dueland crossover parts as well? 😱
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Hi Chrisb!!
Hahahah.
Well, my back-of-the-envelope model doesn't give a whits behind about crossover parts. 🙂
What I find most correlated is simply driver cost, when that is known. It is still a very loose correlation. Brand name can push or pull this up or down quite a bit.
Best,
E
Hahahah.
Well, my back-of-the-envelope model doesn't give a whits behind about crossover parts. 🙂
What I find most correlated is simply driver cost, when that is known. It is still a very loose correlation. Brand name can push or pull this up or down quite a bit.
Best,
E
I'm possibly one of about ten people who have read all of Swede Steen Duelund's stuff. John Kreskovsky is another for sure. 😱
Duelund invented the B&W Matrix closed box idea. Lots of stuffing attached to a frame in the box for instance.
He also put the whole 3 way filter theory on a sound footing.
He was interested in EVERYTHING towards the best sound. He would describe the effect of impedance correction as "Charming"! 😀
This modified Scanspeak woofer 21W/8554 seems to accord with a lot of his ideas. Damping applied to the cone. Replacing the spider with threads, which would only work in closed box IMO. I think it's an acoustic suspension woofer at heart.
http://www.steenduelund.dk/scanspeak8554.pdf
Leading to the new Duelund woofer:
https://hfc-fs.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/duelund_8_inch_precision_audio_driver.pdf
Curiously, 20 years on, the SEAS U22 REXP-SL seems to tick most of the same boxes.
As keen followers of the "Classic Monitors" thread know, Joachim Gerhard is quite smitten with this one.
Duelund invented the B&W Matrix closed box idea. Lots of stuffing attached to a frame in the box for instance.
He also put the whole 3 way filter theory on a sound footing.
He was interested in EVERYTHING towards the best sound. He would describe the effect of impedance correction as "Charming"! 😀
This modified Scanspeak woofer 21W/8554 seems to accord with a lot of his ideas. Damping applied to the cone. Replacing the spider with threads, which would only work in closed box IMO. I think it's an acoustic suspension woofer at heart.
http://www.steenduelund.dk/scanspeak8554.pdf
Leading to the new Duelund woofer:
https://hfc-fs.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/duelund_8_inch_precision_audio_driver.pdf
Curiously, 20 years on, the SEAS U22 REXP-SL seems to tick most of the same boxes.
As keen followers of the "Classic Monitors" thread know, Joachim Gerhard is quite smitten with this one.
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Eric - whether your cocktail napkin is soaked in Coors light or Empress 1908 gin, I think it’s folly to not take the price of high parts count / complex XOs into the calculus of finished production costs. My last 2 multiway builds were with all EnABLed drivers ( I know a guy)- except for the MAOP7 in big MTMs - and the total cost using relatively inexpensive Solen films and #14AWG coils was well over $250 per pair.
Boutique brands such as the Duelands, Jantzen, AudioNote, Jupiters, Mundorf.. etc, could easily add at least on decimal point shift to the right in component cost, without I suspect a corresponding step closer to the “holy grail”.
Of course, I’d be happy to be proven wrong about that on the largesse of some angel investor. 😉
Boutique brands such as the Duelands, Jantzen, AudioNote, Jupiters, Mundorf.. etc, could easily add at least on decimal point shift to the right in component cost, without I suspect a corresponding step closer to the “holy grail”.
Of course, I’d be happy to be proven wrong about that on the largesse of some angel investor. 😉
Chrisb,
Obviously all parts matter (no political pun intended) !
What I'm saying is that the marketing seems to work backwards from desired sales price.
"Hey, we need to sell a $120k pair of speakers" means they go shopping for 6k worth of drivers. What they spend on the inside, who knows. Wilson famously pots his crossovers for instance.
It is my _impression_ that the feeling is that only the drivers matter when deciding the sales. If they make their own drivers this no longer applies.
Best,
E
Obviously all parts matter (no political pun intended) !
What I'm saying is that the marketing seems to work backwards from desired sales price.
"Hey, we need to sell a $120k pair of speakers" means they go shopping for 6k worth of drivers. What they spend on the inside, who knows. Wilson famously pots his crossovers for instance.
It is my _impression_ that the feeling is that only the drivers matter when deciding the sales. If they make their own drivers this no longer applies.
Best,
E
I was reviewing some Steen Duelund articles. It actually looks like Danish, not Swedish, to me. 😱
Steen's obsession was designing for maximum performance. I can hardly think of an area he didn't mull over.
There is a point of view that you should balance a design. If the drivers are £500, you should hardly skimp on crossover quality. And Steen came up with some fairly exotic resistors, capacitors and toroidal coils.
Probably wasted on cheap drivers. Like sreten said, what's the point of worrying about a ferrite coil attached to a ferrite loudspeaker? Gains are only going to be 50% at max. Similarly wire resistors which increase resistance with temperature aren't adding distortion, only tonal difference with a wire voicecoil which might have a different temperature curve. Capacitors seem to work well enough. Most of the measured anomalies are at low frequencies where thicker metal layers might work better.
Ah well, some fun ideas from his fertile brain. His "Flower" cone is a nice idea. He added layers near the centre to balance the moving mass. He always preferred closed box, as it goes.
Just for fun, here's one of my designs. The capacitor is a 630V mains power grade, the tweeter resistors are 10W sandcast and shouldn't even get warm. Probably the ferrite bass coil is the obvious upgrade to aircoil. But mostly any faults you hear will be cone breakup from the bass and tweeter deficiencies.
Steen's obsession was designing for maximum performance. I can hardly think of an area he didn't mull over.
There is a point of view that you should balance a design. If the drivers are £500, you should hardly skimp on crossover quality. And Steen came up with some fairly exotic resistors, capacitors and toroidal coils.
Probably wasted on cheap drivers. Like sreten said, what's the point of worrying about a ferrite coil attached to a ferrite loudspeaker? Gains are only going to be 50% at max. Similarly wire resistors which increase resistance with temperature aren't adding distortion, only tonal difference with a wire voicecoil which might have a different temperature curve. Capacitors seem to work well enough. Most of the measured anomalies are at low frequencies where thicker metal layers might work better.
Ah well, some fun ideas from his fertile brain. His "Flower" cone is a nice idea. He added layers near the centre to balance the moving mass. He always preferred closed box, as it goes.
Just for fun, here's one of my designs. The capacitor is a 630V mains power grade, the tweeter resistors are 10W sandcast and shouldn't even get warm. Probably the ferrite bass coil is the obvious upgrade to aircoil. But mostly any faults you hear will be cone breakup from the bass and tweeter deficiencies.
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