Has anyone try some improvements / modifications on DSE speakers...I bought a pair of second hand A3009, they look avarage and sound even less, but seems to me they may be an ugly ducklings - with some work a lot can be improved on them...same may apply to other models.
They seem to be discontinued with little information available. Do you have any photos? Drivers front and back, looking into the cabinets, at the crossover (both sides) etc.
That little woofer is OK, I once modded a pair with a decent S/H tweeter and the improvement was vast, even with no XO modification, so may be worth trying. Sorry I don't know what tweeter I used it was a Jamo from a blown set.
Stuffed the box and that also helped, I think my niece is still listening to them
Stuffed the box and that also helped, I think my niece is still listening to them
haha...thanks Bret, I hope this is not what you do every time when you run out of ideas...
Moondog55, thanks...I bought those speakers from curiosity mainly, they are the ones with silver cones. I did some measurements and found that woofer Qe is relatively high - 1.6, which is causing peak at around 80 - 150Hz, giving somewhat boomy bass, typical for weak magnets and cheap boxes. And no crossover elements on woofers additionaly degrades fidelity.
Midrange cone is fuly enclosed in steel basket, not very good idea, with resonance at 700Hz. Both midrange and tweeter have only capacitor as crossover, so to prevent voice coils from burning, -3dB point is very high - at 10 and 11KHZ respectively. If one would expect 3-way system to to cut off at 700 and 4000Hz, with those caps attenuation at these points is -21 and -10 dB; no wonder the sound is dull. I belive proper crossover, plus few other changes, would do miracle on that speaker. It still may not sound like top one, but would definitely be pleasent to listen to... Cheers, Tom.
Moondog55, thanks...I bought those speakers from curiosity mainly, they are the ones with silver cones. I did some measurements and found that woofer Qe is relatively high - 1.6, which is causing peak at around 80 - 150Hz, giving somewhat boomy bass, typical for weak magnets and cheap boxes. And no crossover elements on woofers additionaly degrades fidelity.
Midrange cone is fuly enclosed in steel basket, not very good idea, with resonance at 700Hz. Both midrange and tweeter have only capacitor as crossover, so to prevent voice coils from burning, -3dB point is very high - at 10 and 11KHZ respectively. If one would expect 3-way system to to cut off at 700 and 4000Hz, with those caps attenuation at these points is -21 and -10 dB; no wonder the sound is dull. I belive proper crossover, plus few other changes, would do miracle on that speaker. It still may not sound like top one, but would definitely be pleasent to listen to... Cheers, Tom.
Some would see it as the proverbial "renovator's dream", but some would see it as a challenge and a learning experience.
For example you might glue some bits of wood in a few choice places around the cabinet. Put some pillow stuffing or padding inside. Room placement may help with the low end peak if it's an issue, so might stuffing or playing with ports.
Moondog feels the woofer can be used so you could find and roll off any cone breakup issues at the top end, and change the tweeter and/or mid for something that will reach lower.
You could glue some wadding over the front panel to reduce diffraction, test your measurement skills, or set up an array of subs for room integration. And when you want to get something better it's cost you bugger all.
For example you might glue some bits of wood in a few choice places around the cabinet. Put some pillow stuffing or padding inside. Room placement may help with the low end peak if it's an issue, so might stuffing or playing with ports.
Moondog feels the woofer can be used so you could find and roll off any cone breakup issues at the top end, and change the tweeter and/or mid for something that will reach lower.
You could glue some wadding over the front panel to reduce diffraction, test your measurement skills, or set up an array of subs for room integration. And when you want to get something better it's cost you bugger all.
I seldom run out of ideas, I simply thought it was the best entertainment you were going to get out of them. I long ago gave up on the idea of there being much value in polishing turds.
They will never be "High Fidelity sound reproduction devices" but tinkering with stuff like this is good for rainy afternoons when there is nothing to do except watch football re-runs.
I think we may have different speakers in the same range, I modded the 2-way, the 3-way I would chuck the sealed midrange POS as usual
pictures??
Good for the shed or similar use
I think we may have different speakers in the same range, I modded the 2-way, the 3-way I would chuck the sealed midrange POS as usual
pictures??
Good for the shed or similar use
I wouldn't willingly watch football (except LFL) in first run, let alone re-run without a gun to my head as you apply the eyelid openers a la A Clockwork Orange.
Hello to everyone, it was not my attempt to offend anyone, but I belive that this site is not only about bragging who can afford more exotic piece of audio stuff, on the contrary, as AllenB pointed out, to challenge us to get on the learning curve of acquiring experience about sound and how things are done. And it is a challenge to do something from nothing. And bear in mind that some new stuff cost a lot of money but don't justify it with quality (of sound), as I experienced it recently listening to a $30,000 speaker. Beautiful piece of furniture ( as guy in the shop pointed out and I agreed ...), but not pleasant listening experience. And if some of us can fork 30 grand out of pocket just like that, good on them...
I am half way through mods, so will let you know the results when finished...
I am half way through mods, so will let you know the results when finished...
Brett, perhaps you can tell us what speaker projects are you doing and what is your knowledge around speakers, as you keep your nose so high, instead of just being negative...
Tomom,
I bought a pair of the silver cone 2-ways AE-2905 from DSE on clearout for about fifty bucks.
They had nasty cabinet resonances around 125-150Hz, the tweeter was a touch too high and the reflections from the inside of the grille frames were appalling, giving rise to a 'honky', 'smeary' kind of sound.
A few bits of scrap MDF glued to the insides of the cabs, an 18Ohm resistor across the tweeter and some felt applied to the baffles (so the grilles still went on OK), added somr extra stuffing and they ended up entirely listenable. Top end sound? No way, but as GP speakers to fill the system while the mains are away getting hacked (everyday occurence) they are ideal. Their sins are those of omission but the honks and smears and stored enegy are reduced to being forgiveable.
For fifty bucks I could not even buy a pair of decent wide range drivers.
So I encourage you to have a try and see what can be done for (nearly) nothing. Learn and remember for next time. That's the DIY ethos. Yeah, they are crap (maybe 'well cooked' after mods) but nothing is in vain if you learn from it.
Brett is not wrong, they will never be great speakers. But if you can turn them into GOOD speakers - well, you can save your money this time so you have more to spend on great speakers NEXT time!
Cheers and good luck,
Mon blakk
I bought a pair of the silver cone 2-ways AE-2905 from DSE on clearout for about fifty bucks.
They had nasty cabinet resonances around 125-150Hz, the tweeter was a touch too high and the reflections from the inside of the grille frames were appalling, giving rise to a 'honky', 'smeary' kind of sound.
A few bits of scrap MDF glued to the insides of the cabs, an 18Ohm resistor across the tweeter and some felt applied to the baffles (so the grilles still went on OK), added somr extra stuffing and they ended up entirely listenable. Top end sound? No way, but as GP speakers to fill the system while the mains are away getting hacked (everyday occurence) they are ideal. Their sins are those of omission but the honks and smears and stored enegy are reduced to being forgiveable.
For fifty bucks I could not even buy a pair of decent wide range drivers.
So I encourage you to have a try and see what can be done for (nearly) nothing. Learn and remember for next time. That's the DIY ethos. Yeah, they are crap (maybe 'well cooked' after mods) but nothing is in vain if you learn from it.
Brett is not wrong, they will never be great speakers. But if you can turn them into GOOD speakers - well, you can save your money this time so you have more to spend on great speakers NEXT time!
Cheers and good luck,
Mon blakk
I have been designing and building for 3 decades, speakers and electronics.
As for the details of them, I have been posting in various places on them for some time, and cannot be bothered to repeat it now. I am compiling it as I go to put up when complete in one hit. Lots of AE drivers involved, Unitys for the L/R and I just ordered some new SEOS12 for the surrounds (all speakers active) and much of the electronics are mine or modified by me: much of today was spent inside some amps modifying them to better suit my needs as I shagged my back yesterday moving whitegoods. I've also got 8 sub drivers and will order another couple later in the year to give an increase in clean LF for when I'm using the system for movies - I was hoping to get some of the sub enclosures started this w/e, but maybe next, after I make some more space in the garage.
1st post was a joke, 2nd showed my philosophy wrt projects and the last pointed out a strawman.
I calls 'em as I sees 'em. No nose in the air, but if it makes you feel better to believe that, go right ahead.
Mon blakk,
Thanks for coment; as I said I bought them from curiosity ($50 from local thrift shop) I knew from the start they were not something exceptional, but couldn't resist not to work on them. I'll apply your suggestions, and some of my ideas - they will serve me well I hope untill my drivers for new project arive and I start working on it. It will be system made of 15" LF driver, 6" midrange and a tweeter...
Thanks for coment; as I said I bought them from curiosity ($50 from local thrift shop) I knew from the start they were not something exceptional, but couldn't resist not to work on them. I'll apply your suggestions, and some of my ideas - they will serve me well I hope untill my drivers for new project arive and I start working on it. It will be system made of 15" LF driver, 6" midrange and a tweeter...
Brett I guess not, but are those 8 subs to be distributed individually in the same room? If so it would be the first I'd heard of it, and quite impressive. One of these days..... 😉
Tomom, when I was younger I would learn something great about speakers. I would study it and design, study and design until I said 'time to build'. It would only take a month or two before I realised I had missed something (whatever it was was not important, just something new I had learned at the time) and I would have the itch to scrap them for something else... Just agreeing that it was good to get the mistakes behind me.
Thinking about it I remember when I was about 18, driving some long distance to get some special woofers. I was so keen to listen to them that I stopped at a supermarket to get some cardboard boxes, picked up some tape and a box knife, then cut into the car stereo wiring to get them going before I got home.
I showed them to a friend and he told me I couldn't put them in a closed box, I'd need to go vented, or something. I just ignored that 🙂
Tomom, when I was younger I would learn something great about speakers. I would study it and design, study and design until I said 'time to build'. It would only take a month or two before I realised I had missed something (whatever it was was not important, just something new I had learned at the time) and I would have the itch to scrap them for something else... Just agreeing that it was good to get the mistakes behind me.
Thinking about it I remember when I was about 18, driving some long distance to get some special woofers. I was so keen to listen to them that I stopped at a supermarket to get some cardboard boxes, picked up some tape and a box knife, then cut into the car stereo wiring to get them going before I got home.
I showed them to a friend and he told me I couldn't put them in a closed box, I'd need to go vented, or something. I just ignored that 🙂
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That's more like it. A nice JBL 2226, B&C 6MD38 and the tweet Zaph uses in the WG build he has (with WG) would be a nice start.
A pair of enclosures will have two each opposed, and 4 enclosures will have one each. Later another quad of a different driver and move the original duals to the rear of the room. About 14.5 litres of volume displacement.
i couldnt agree more, doing the best you can with the limited resorces you have, is part of the fun,. and the learning curve
im running my old Tangent TM3's Tangent Speakers TM-3
and of all the speakers i have had (yes there better with a sub) these are the softest and sweetest sounding
of this thing atm
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/view_images.php?cat=Vintage%20Equipment&catnick=vintage_equipment&cfid=648972669&image_id=2727961
sure a £3000 amp would offer some increase in quility, but who cares, im happy with it
infact they are soo good that of all the speakers i have used these have always stayed plugged in
good sound doesnt always come from expencive speakers, you can get it with a dolly mix of old speakers all littered aroud the room in perfected posisions and tweeked eq here and there. of all sound i have heard to date... the best by far comes from having a bunch of different sized speakers in different places (sure its not *flat* but it has a good caractor)😱
and lets not forget i live in a country where the majoraty think this JUNK is good sound....
Results for IPOD DOCK - Argos.co.uk
Results for IPOD DOCK - Argos.co.uk
Hehe, good point, I know what you mean.
England traditionally has high standards. Australia has modelled it's manufacturing standards on Britain's for over a hundred years and in some respects we have the highest standards in the world.
Trying to put this delicately, I think it is mass market ears that are not up to standard. Realistically though some docks do sound reasonable. They are adequate for the purpose and moderately enjoyable to listen to. But of course we know better 😉.
England traditionally has high standards. Australia has modelled it's manufacturing standards on Britain's for over a hundred years and in some respects we have the highest standards in the world.
Trying to put this delicately, I think it is mass market ears that are not up to standard. Realistically though some docks do sound reasonable. They are adequate for the purpose and moderately enjoyable to listen to. But of course we know better 😉.