Agree 100%
Cable capacitance is absolutely, unquestionably, measurably important with certain MM cartridges. Particularly Audio-Technica, as their coil inductance is higher than average.
Jim Hagerman as, as usual, made the gold standard reference page for our use, see here - https://www.hagtech.com/loading.html
Long story short, if the total load capacitance becomes too high, the LC bump will get pushed into the audible range. That load capacitance is the cable and associated jacks/plugs, the phonostage loading capacitance, and and input miller capacitance, or equivalent.
I strive to keep the total capacitance of my rig below 150pF, and the only way to do that is use a very low capacitance cabling from the arm to the phonostage. Why do I do this? simple - the AT150MLX is the most amazing cartridge ever made, IMO, but it's only flat with low capacitance, and is very sensitive to any excess. This is generally true with the entire A-T range, though the 150 is the one that needs the most hoops jumped through...
If you need more capacitance for MC cartridges, it's trivial to add, so using a very low-capacitance cable is good for everything.
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Totally agree.
Comparing the Shure´s to nowadays MM cartridges makes no sense.
I still have a Shure V15-IV, which needs around 400pF to do it´s best.
All my other MM´s make the most flat (within the audible range) curve with around 100pF.
Which makes you face a challenge, if your tonearm cable has a total of 150pF, and your preamp is fixed with 100/150pF
on the Phono-input.
Remember the old 70`s amps usually had MM-inputs with 22K/47K/100K & 50pF/100pF/150pF options??
Pity, this went obsolete in favor of multiple loading options for MC and just a fixed 47K/100pF for MM.
Sad.
Well, yes. Mind you, I'd rather a nice MM cartridge today. My last (current) is an Ortofon 540 MKII. I have a problem with another 20 dB of gain required, although I do have nice MC preamps. I'd rather stick a new stylus on and keep rocking rather than buy another cartridge - or wait for the return trip and possible loss.
Way back in the day I had an Ortofon VMS30E MKII. Killed most other cartridges.
MM cartridges have come along way, all types have. If you do choose a cartridge that requires a very low capacitive load, just do it right and install your preamp inside, right under the tone arm lead wires. You can then use a really clean load (polystyrene, or C0G ceramic). Just eliminate the cartridge level signal through wire deal. You're obviously going for the best quality you can. May as well go all the way.
Way back in the day I had an Ortofon VMS30E MKII. Killed most other cartridges.
MM cartridges have come along way, all types have. If you do choose a cartridge that requires a very low capacitive load, just do it right and install your preamp inside, right under the tone arm lead wires. You can then use a really clean load (polystyrene, or C0G ceramic). Just eliminate the cartridge level signal through wire deal. You're obviously going for the best quality you can. May as well go all the way.
He he..... once maybe, but that ship has unfortunately (for my wallet) sailed.
I was stupid enough to buy (used) a Sumiko Palo Santos (which I don´t have anymore).
Once you´ve tried that level of MC´s, there´s no way back. Goldring 900IGC and the Shure, no matter how good they are,
they just do not compare (nor does the price).
Lush and wonderful is probably the best (only?) way to describe it.
About 6 months ago there was a NOS/unopened VMS30EMKII for sale in the area, where I live; for 300$.
Stupid fxxxxng me was too slow, and it dissapeared 😢
That´s the beautiful thing about DIY. When you miss something, you just do it youself.
To be honest, the 540 MKII KILLS the VMS30E MKII easily. The VMS is still mounted on a Thorens TD-125 MKII, the 540 is mounted on a Thorens TD-126 MKII. MC cartridges I have tried were good, no denying. But not better. Ortofon changed the basic MM mechanism between Variable Magnetic Shunt and their current MM design with the 540 cartridge.
I'd love a Thorens TD-1601 with an Ortofon Black something. The improvement would be incremental, cost difference high. One thing that made a huge positive difference was a Sorbothane mat.
That's the thing with DIY, you can "do it right" at a fraction of the cost anyone else could - and really get it right. Warranty? That's all on you! lol!
I'd love a Thorens TD-1601 with an Ortofon Black something. The improvement would be incremental, cost difference high. One thing that made a huge positive difference was a Sorbothane mat.
That's the thing with DIY, you can "do it right" at a fraction of the cost anyone else could - and really get it right. Warranty? That's all on you! lol!
Thank you all. A lot of helpful information. I kinda regret now having bought the Technics SL100C as opposed to the 1500C which has a built in pre-amp which, I guess, would have taken some of the headache away. I thought that my amplifier built-in phono stages would do the job easily.
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Hi drummerman111,
You may have made the correct choice.
People get so wound up about ideals. I hate to say it, but there are many times when the existing solution is more than good enough. Sure you can really spend a lot of time and effort making things better, but at the end of the day - did it make anything really better? It also depends on the turntable (bearings, tonearm etc ...), your other electronics and your speakers. Never mind the room. So look at your system and environment, how does everything stack up?
Absolutely, you can do the best possible in your situation. It's great as an exercise and learning tool. It may pay dividends in the future. Just be rational in what you do.
-Chris
You may have made the correct choice.
- Your cartridge may not require very low load capacitance for one. So worry about nothing.
- Built in preamps may or may not be any good.
- You can build a better phono preamp, and you have your choice of many here.
People get so wound up about ideals. I hate to say it, but there are many times when the existing solution is more than good enough. Sure you can really spend a lot of time and effort making things better, but at the end of the day - did it make anything really better? It also depends on the turntable (bearings, tonearm etc ...), your other electronics and your speakers. Never mind the room. So look at your system and environment, how does everything stack up?
Absolutely, you can do the best possible in your situation. It's great as an exercise and learning tool. It may pay dividends in the future. Just be rational in what you do.
-Chris