Hi,
Are two small subs each side of sofa a good idea? Basically, then we are very close to at least one of them making room-equalization, big drivers, big amps moot.
Just two small 8" or 10" sealed subs on either side of sofa.
Warm Regards,
WonderfulAudio
Are two small subs each side of sofa a good idea? Basically, then we are very close to at least one of them making room-equalization, big drivers, big amps moot.
Just two small 8" or 10" sealed subs on either side of sofa.
Warm Regards,
WonderfulAudio
IME, the main problem is you can't XO it low enough and why a sofa platform sub is the 'hot ticket'.
Why not make it lean, mean, slide under the sofa sub, or two...
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-SUB-1000L-10-100-Watt-Low-Profile-Powered-Subw-300-639
To avoid cancellation in the upper sub range when sitting on either side of the sofa, centering the subs behind or in front of the sofa would be a better idea.
Two subs in front of the sofa could have opposing drivers, cancelling most of the vibration force that could rattle drinks off single sub table.
@weltersys,
Do you think it would be even better to have four of 6.5 inch sealed subs in a 3 feet array place below the sofa? Then no matter where the listener sits on the sofa, he/she will be within the array, also totally invisible, greater WAF.
I keep bass close to the other sources now.
But only one way to find out.
I have had 2 subs to the sides of couches and subs behind the couch, depends on the room.
I would say I slightly liked sub behind the couch better.
It is not special, aside from when watching movies, the subs are louder being closer.
Rumbles your butt a little.
I entertain people at the house and didnt like music with the subs near the couch standing in other places.
I keep everything near all sources.
Unless you spin in violent circles next to your TV and really really need that space nobody uses.
I just put the subs to the sides, one for right one for left.
But only one way to find out.
I have had 2 subs to the sides of couches and subs behind the couch, depends on the room.
I would say I slightly liked sub behind the couch better.
It is not special, aside from when watching movies, the subs are louder being closer.
Rumbles your butt a little.
I entertain people at the house and didnt like music with the subs near the couch standing in other places.
I keep everything near all sources.
Unless you spin in violent circles next to your TV and really really need that space nobody uses.
I just put the subs to the sides, one for right one for left.
Whether its two on the either side of the sofa or one behind the sofa or a couple of them below the sofa I have a problem.
Now we cannot have overlap between the mains and the subs due to the larger time of arrival from the mains and almost zero time of arrival from the subs. They wont blend, so the steeper the crossover between the mains and subs the better, this we can take care by lets say 24dB/Octave Linkwitz Riley crossover. How does one delay the subs to match the arrival of mains? This is tricky to solve.😕 Any solution?
Now we cannot have overlap between the mains and the subs due to the larger time of arrival from the mains and almost zero time of arrival from the subs. They wont blend, so the steeper the crossover between the mains and subs the better, this we can take care by lets say 24dB/Octave Linkwitz Riley crossover. How does one delay the subs to match the arrival of mains? This is tricky to solve.😕 Any solution?
Adjustable delay on each crossover output is standard on most any DSP.
Some commercial subs or basic bluetooth componet systems will cross high around 120 Hz to even 160 Hz
So yes with subs at large distance from main sources it will sound funny with music.
Why I moved the subs next to the source.
As noted with more delay and annoying DSP and 3 more thing to turn on and a computer.
You can delay the signals as needed.
Just put the subs next to the main sources. Down low close to the ground plane.
Having 2 corners next to the TV I actually up fire, corner loaded and have no " room dip" problems
or multi sub nonsense. just 2 for stereo. Why argue with stereo.
I listen to wide range of music with electronic music, they use phase and speader effects in the bass.
So yes it is hard for people to conceive stereo subs. All in all for "normal stuff" or dynamic movies.
2x subs keeps you away from distortion 80 Hz crossover
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I have had a similar arrangement - yes it works. I don't do the maths or the theory but I find the timing issues largely irrelevant. In non-technical terms bass is slow. When mixing dance tracks we use the high-hat or snare because its sharper.
With sub-bass timing is further negated due to the vibrations travelling through different mediums. i.e vibrations reaching you via the floor & walls will reach you faster than those travelling through the air.
With sub-bass timing is further negated due to the vibrations travelling through different mediums. i.e vibrations reaching you via the floor & walls will reach you faster than those travelling through the air.
two subs next to the sofa can work if they are time aligned with the main speakers. It may not be ideal. Idem with smaller drivers, the distotion will be higher on the same volume as a big driver, but it can work.
Very good non instrusive subs are the Ripole subwoofers, they are small in size and when enough amp power they can go loud. The drivers mostly used are bigger (12inch Peerless SLS drivers), but the sub is not that much bigger than the two drivers, and the room is way less a factor with those (altough room correction still may be needed tor a perfect sound).
Very good non instrusive subs are the Ripole subwoofers, they are small in size and when enough amp power they can go loud. The drivers mostly used are bigger (12inch Peerless SLS drivers), but the sub is not that much bigger than the two drivers, and the room is way less a factor with those (altough room correction still may be needed tor a perfect sound).
But only for that particular listening position. For other places in the room this may have an adverse effect.
A friend of mine put two subs behind the sofa and tells me that it was hard to make them acoustically invisible, he said he could always make out that bass was coming from rear. He said he had to lower the cover to 60Hz, really? How does one solve this problem? How high can I go, I thought 100hz was good? And what slopes should I use, shallow like Earl recommends with good overlap with mains or steep like 4th order Linkwitz Riley? Pls note I am going to build a bandpass to acoustically filter out the harmonics so that subs don't reveal their position.
Warm Regards,
WonderfulAudio
Warm Regards,
WonderfulAudio
60Hz is about right. Many people have been sold the wrong concept with regard to subwoofers. This has happened because by transferring the woofer's duties to the sub you can build smaller, more discreet satellites. But it is SUB-woofer, designed to handle the frequencies below that of the woofer. Most bookshelf speakers with 5" drivers can handle 60hz - let them do their job.
If you have an active, or any form line-level x-crossover, your band-pass project is a waste of time. There is no signal to filter out.
Your friend may have his senses confused. I actually have 10" subs either side of my sofa. Sitting on the sofa you could believe the sub-bass was coming from the sofa (because it's literally vibrating your bum through higher density media). From any other position in the room I have no idea where the bass is coming from. Then, there's the impact of experience. If you come into my house, your experience will tell you that much bass is not coming from those two little speakers.
As proof of concept: my 10" subs are hidden below side-tables. At the front, next to my TV, I have a 12" sub. My friend really wants to buy it because it puts out some wicked bass.
The 12" sub is not connected . . . he really has no idea where the bass is actually coming from.
behind the sofa against a wall? Then the wall acts as reflector and makes the bass more directive from one side to the listeners. If the subs are on both sides of the sofa the bass comes in two directions and is less directive, but time and phase aliging is way more complex to do it right.
But the best is still or next to the mains or the floyd toole multisub technique. Both need a lot of dsp to sound fully right, but at the end you got the best results. If you can't do that make sure the bass is comming to you from different directions (like on both sides of hte softa) and take time (or hire someone) to tune them right on the dsp. And for home theater they cross the sub a bit lower (80hz) to avoid directivity.
And remember that room modes are always into play (except in open air with no walls near). You can use dsp or acoustic treatment (or both) to reduce the impact, but placement of the speakers (cetainly subs) can also help a lot with that. Close to walls yu will always have a wall loading, and from a certain level you will load the room as one big speaker cabinet.
But the best is still or next to the mains or the floyd toole multisub technique. Both need a lot of dsp to sound fully right, but at the end you got the best results. If you can't do that make sure the bass is comming to you from different directions (like on both sides of hte softa) and take time (or hire someone) to tune them right on the dsp. And for home theater they cross the sub a bit lower (80hz) to avoid directivity.
And remember that room modes are always into play (except in open air with no walls near). You can use dsp or acoustic treatment (or both) to reduce the impact, but placement of the speakers (cetainly subs) can also help a lot with that. Close to walls yu will always have a wall loading, and from a certain level you will load the room as one big speaker cabinet.
I'm going to disagree with mainly because we'd need to write a lengthy paper on the concept of hearing. I had a deaf step-daughter so you're in my wheelhouse. From the moment she blew-up my Wharfedale E90s - divorce was inevitable.
Most scientific calculations of human sound perception are irrelevant & useless. You'd need to fill a 200 litre bag with water, fix 2 microphones 8" apart at the top, and place thousands of low frequency sensors in bag.
Totally deaf, Chamagne could differentiate songs by the bass. This indicates frequencies below 100hz are felt by the body rather than the ear's sensitivity to changing air pressure.
Feeling the bass starts to dominate arround 60Hz say science, and it's a gradual transition (so it starts higher in frequencey and your hearing with the ear stops lower). So when you hear subs it's partly by your ears, but also partly by your body, especially by your diaphragm, a musscle in your torso that manage your breathing. That is why with heavy low bass it's harder to breath and some can't handle that and get sick on high volume like on dub parties. You can train your body to deal with that btw, experienced dub party goers like me don't have problems with that. And that is also why deaf can hear subbass. It's also the reason why i hate headphones i think, with headphones you can't feel the subbass, while with a speaker in a room, even on low volume (if you are close) you can feel it. And altough it's subtile on low level, it's a big difference i think.