Hi. Thanks for reading. After listening to a pair of dipole speakers I am impressed by the spaciousness of the sound. Two drive units connected out of phase with each other, which destroys the direct sound reaching the listener’s ear, so the listener only hears the reflected sound from the room’s walls, causing a spacious kind of sound.
But it seems to be an expensive build, with more drive units required. Is it possible to mimic dipole speakers with a non-dipole speaker, by using the out of phase back radiation in some way. I tried it by removing the back of the speaker enclosure, hoping the read radiation would destroy the direct sound, but it did not work well, the dipole speakers sounded much more spacious
But it seems to be an expensive build, with more drive units required. Is it possible to mimic dipole speakers with a non-dipole speaker, by using the out of phase back radiation in some way. I tried it by removing the back of the speaker enclosure, hoping the read radiation would destroy the direct sound, but it did not work well, the dipole speakers sounded much more spacious
Sorry, I don't follow. Speakers designed to radiate sound in a dipolar pattern almost always follow the open baffle path, and are oriented so the listener gets direct sound from one of the two poles. Very few use two enclosed drivers. What was it you heard?
(Also, just taking the back off a box speaker is unlikely to work well - it will mess up the design in all sorts of ways.)
(Also, just taking the back off a box speaker is unlikely to work well - it will mess up the design in all sorts of ways.)
That isn't what most would term a dipole loudspeaker. A dipole loudspeaker as noted above is a loudspeaker where radiation to the rear of a given source is 180 degrees out of phase with the front (like a panel speaker, or a baffle with a drive unit mounted in it); it technically has a figure-8 radiation pattern. Are you sure you don't mean an omnidirectional design?
The latter is what is normally termed a dipole, i.e. a source with rearward radiation 180 degrees out of phase with its opposite side. It has a deep cancellation to either side (hence the figure 8 pattern). If we're talking some kind of omni variation where you're deliberately increasing the ratio of reflected to direct energy at the listening position, you'll need at least a 2-way, potentially, depending on design, with several drive units of each type although that last isn't a given.
This is my understanding of dipoles from the audioholics website:
" Dipoles are similar to bipole speakers, except one array is out of phase with the other array. What this does is create a null (cancellation) on-axis, with a resulting level drop of 8 -12dB. The pumped-up, off-axis reflected sound is mostly what the listeners will hear. Dipole surrounds produce a less-focused, diffuse,enveloping surround field. "
" Dipoles are similar to bipole speakers, except one array is out of phase with the other array. What this does is create a null (cancellation) on-axis, with a resulting level drop of 8 -12dB. The pumped-up, off-axis reflected sound is mostly what the listeners will hear. Dipole surrounds produce a less-focused, diffuse,enveloping surround field. "
So what were the speakers you heard and liked? You're describing surround speakers. These aren't really designed to be used for the main channels, for several reasons.
(If we don't know what it was you heard and liked, we can't help you reproduce it.)
(If we don't know what it was you heard and liked, we can't help you reproduce it.)
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Yes, that is dedicated surround loudspeaker meant to be mounted on side walls, so not suitable for conventional stereo.
Bad source of info. The speakers in photo are not dipole in any way in fact.
Please read www.linkwitzlab.com
Please read www.linkwitzlab.com
You would have to turn the loudspeaker 180 degrees. But you will suffer bass loss. You could also try a stereo enhancer like the bbe sonic maximizer
"dipole" wall-mounted surround speakers for cinema and home theater have been practically abandoned long ago. They can give pleasant sound in favourable space, but the basic principle is flawed for this application. Multichannel audio labs don't recommend them, mixes are made for monopoles at determined locations.
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/surround-speaker-dipole-vs-bipole
...with the advent of immersive surround, dipoles become even less relevant and indeed counterproductive
https://support.klipsch.com/hc/en-us/articles/360025546612-Different-Types-of-Surround-Speakers
If you take the basic design of a bipole speaker with the rear facing drivers firing exactly opposite of the front, you have a "dipole" speaker. Dipole speakers produce a very diffuse sound, which is good for ambience, but, like bipoles, are not very effective at localization. Dipole design further reduces direct sound to the listening position.
https://blog.teufelaudio.com/dipole-effect-speakers-surround-sound/
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/surround-speaker-dipole-vs-bipole
...with the advent of immersive surround, dipoles become even less relevant and indeed counterproductive
https://support.klipsch.com/hc/en-us/articles/360025546612-Different-Types-of-Surround-Speakers
If you take the basic design of a bipole speaker with the rear facing drivers firing exactly opposite of the front, you have a "dipole" speaker. Dipole speakers produce a very diffuse sound, which is good for ambience, but, like bipoles, are not very effective at localization. Dipole design further reduces direct sound to the listening position.
https://blog.teufelaudio.com/dipole-effect-speakers-surround-sound/
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Juhazi. I don't get your point. Goodguys asks how he can mimic the diffuse sound from dipoles, and you are not really helping
Actually, @goodguys asked how he can mimic the diffuse sound from some speakers that he refers to as dipoles, but which sound like surround speakers rather than mains.
He provided a small picture of unidentified surround speakers.
If the OP wants people to help him make some dipole surround speakers, it's absolutely fair to point out the limitations of those.
He provided a small picture of unidentified surround speakers.
If the OP wants people to help him make some dipole surround speakers, it's absolutely fair to point out the limitations of those.
The dipoles shown by goodguys is not open baffle dipoles. I completely agree this is not hifi, but if someone likes the diffuse sound it's fair by me. Sonic maximizers, stereo enhancers etc exist because some people likes this way of representing music.
That is not how dipole loudspeakers work. Read the link which @Juhazi gave.
Short story: no.
That destroys side sound, not direct - and that is how dipole loudspeakers works, in general.
Because true dipoles radiate equal quantity of low and mid (and high) frequencies in front and back. Your experiment created only "low-frequency dipole" - not enough for generating spaciousness.
Dipoles do not work like like this. They have figure-of-8 pattern, with direct sound from the forward lobe reaching listener's ear first, then reflected sound from the rear lobe arrives, reflected from the front (relative to the listener) wall. Reflections from the side walls are largely suppressed. If speakers are moved significantly into the room - say, 2 m from the front wall - this rear reflection adds a pleasant sense of space.
This kind of speaker is usually called "bipole".
To an extent this effect can be mimicked with additional, rather directive, rear firing source added to a regular monopole speaker. This source should be attenuated relatively to front-firing drivers and aimed somewhere upwards. 10..12" coaxials or similar sized horns, used from 800..1000 Hz, are suitable for this role, although "real" dipole would still be more impressive, IMO.
Also, the (in)famous Bose 901 work exactly like this. Noaudiophile and Erin both have interesting impressions and measurements.
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/bose_901_series_v/
https://noaudiophile.com/Bose_901/
I wonder if the OP is thinking of stereo widening speakers that take the signal of one channel, invert it, then apply it to the other channel through a 2nd driver on the front baffle. Speakers like these were popular in the '70s, such as the Polk Audio SDA line. Carver also made a preamp that could do this with normal speakers. The effect did indeed spread the sound around making the speakers disappear, but the sweet spot was quite small, large enough for one listener only.
