that can depend - with some cabinets and guitars/pickups (and genre) a fat tone and impression of decent "bass" can happen with that high of rolloff - maing a smaller cabinet may well suffice. Much seems to depend upon the upper harmonics and not so much to the few and weaker fundamentals. The move decades ago to Rotosound round wound strings added a lot of harmonic strength vs previous flat wound stings.
Oddly I've heard some pickups make a big difference in the voice and apparent weight of a bass guitar's lower notes. With a cheap Glarry 30" bass a change to a cheap clone of the original Fender Precision Bass 4-alnico rod single coil pickup made a huge improvement. (I've had it go the other way with a jazz pup)
FWIW, Here's some chat-bot chat on the subject:
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hi QWEN - as a bass guitar player, music lover, and speaker builder I've noted that a lot of bassists use smaller cabinets and old school bass-rigs which rolloff below 80Hz or so. Many musicians don't seem to realize that truth. With certain genre such as classic rock I've noted that for 4 string bass guitars, "strong" support to 80Hz for a speaker cabinet is adequate due to much of a bass guitar's "tone" comes from the string's harmonics and not the weaker fundamentals - particular those on the low E string from A down to the open E (~41.2Hz)
Qwen2.5-Max
Hi there! Thanks for reaching out, and it sounds like you're diving deep into the nuances of bass guitar tone and speaker design—awesome stuff!
You're absolutely right in your observations. Many bassists, especially those playing classic rock or genres where the tonal focus leans more on midrange punch and harmonic content, can get away with cabinets that roll off below 80Hz. Here's why this works and what’s happening acoustically:
In genres like classic rock, where the bass often shares sonic space with guitars, kick drums, and other instruments, the emphasis is typically on the midrange and upper harmonics rather than sub-bass frequencies. As a result, a cabinet that supports strong output down to 80 Hz can still deliver a satisfying and full-sounding bass tone.
In summary, your observation about the adequacy of 80 Hz support for many bass applications is spot-on. By focusing on harmonics and midrange clarity, you can achieve a tone that's both musically satisfying and technically efficient. Keep rocking those builds—and let me know if you'd like help with any specific speaker design challenges!
Oddly I've heard some pickups make a big difference in the voice and apparent weight of a bass guitar's lower notes. With a cheap Glarry 30" bass a change to a cheap clone of the original Fender Precision Bass 4-alnico rod single coil pickup made a huge improvement. (I've had it go the other way with a jazz pup)
FWIW, Here's some chat-bot chat on the subject:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
hi QWEN - as a bass guitar player, music lover, and speaker builder I've noted that a lot of bassists use smaller cabinets and old school bass-rigs which rolloff below 80Hz or so. Many musicians don't seem to realize that truth. With certain genre such as classic rock I've noted that for 4 string bass guitars, "strong" support to 80Hz for a speaker cabinet is adequate due to much of a bass guitar's "tone" comes from the string's harmonics and not the weaker fundamentals - particular those on the low E string from A down to the open E (~41.2Hz)
Qwen2.5-Max
Hi there! Thanks for reaching out, and it sounds like you're diving deep into the nuances of bass guitar tone and speaker design—awesome stuff!
You're absolutely right in your observations. Many bassists, especially those playing classic rock or genres where the tonal focus leans more on midrange punch and harmonic content, can get away with cabinets that roll off below 80Hz. Here's why this works and what’s happening acoustically:
1. The Role of Harmonics in Bass Tone
- Fundamentals vs. Harmonics: When a bassist plays a note, the fundamental frequency (e.g., 41.2 Hz for the open E string) is the root pitch of the note. However, the harmonics (overtones) are what give the note its character, warmth, and perceived "fullness." These harmonics occur at integer multiples of the fundamental frequency (e.g., 82.4 Hz, 123.6 Hz, etc.).
- Perception of Low Frequencies: Human hearing is less sensitive to very low frequencies (below ~50–60 Hz), especially at lower volumes. This means that even if the fundamental isn't fully reproduced by the speaker cabinet, our brains fill in the missing information based on the presence of harmonics.
In genres like classic rock, where the bass often shares sonic space with guitars, kick drums, and other instruments, the emphasis is typically on the midrange and upper harmonics rather than sub-bass frequencies. As a result, a cabinet that supports strong output down to 80 Hz can still deliver a satisfying and full-sounding bass tone.
2. Speaker Cabinets and Roll-Off Below 80 Hz
- Smaller Cabinets: Smaller bass cabinets often use drivers with limited excursion capabilities or enclosures tuned to higher frequencies. This results in a natural roll-off below 80 Hz or so. While this might seem like a limitation, it actually aligns well with the needs of many musical styles.
- Efficiency Trade-Offs: Larger cabinets capable of reproducing ultra-low frequencies (e.g., down to 30–40 Hz) tend to be less efficient in the midrange and upper bass regions. For a genre like classic rock, where clarity and punch are key, smaller cabinets can actually provide better performance in the critical frequency range.
3. The Open E String and Its Challenges
- Low E Fundamentals (~41.2 Hz): The open E string on a 4-string bass has a fundamental frequency of 41.2 Hz, which is quite low. Reproducing this frequency accurately requires a speaker system with significant low-end extension and power handling. However, as you noted, much of the perceived "weight" of this note comes from its second harmonic (82.4 Hz) and higher overtones.
- Practical Implications: If a cabinet rolls off below 80 Hz, the fundamental of the low E string will be attenuated, but the harmonics will still be present. This can create a tone that feels tight and focused, without excessive boominess or muddiness in the mix.
4. Genre-Specific Considerations
- Classic Rock: In classic rock, the bass often serves as a rhythmic and harmonic anchor rather than a deep sub-bass instrument. A cabinet that emphasizes 80–200 Hz can provide plenty of thump and growl while staying clear and articulate.
- Modern Genres (Metal, EDM, etc.): In contrast, modern genres often demand extended low-frequency response to support synth basslines, drop-tuned guitars, or five/six-string basses. In these cases, larger cabinets or subwoofers may be necessary.
5. Building Speakers for Bass Applications
As a speaker builder, you have a unique opportunity to tailor your designs to specific musical needs. Here are some tips:- Tuning for Classic Rock: Design cabinets that prioritize efficiency and clarity in the 80–200 Hz range. Ported designs tuned around 50–60 Hz can offer a good balance of low-end extension and midrange punch.
- Driver Selection: Choose drivers with strong mid-bass response and controlled excursion. Look for models with high sensitivity and moderate power handling, as these will excel in the critical frequency range.
- Crossover Design: If you're building multi-way systems, consider using a crossover point around 150–200 Hz to ensure smooth integration between woofer and midrange drivers.
6. Practical Testing and Listening
Ultimately, the proof is in the listening. Try comparing different cabinets with varying low-frequency responses while playing along with classic rock tracks. Pay attention to how the bass sits in the mix and whether the tone feels full and balanced. You may find that a cabinet rolling off below 80 Hz still provides all the "oomph" you need for most genres.In summary, your observation about the adequacy of 80 Hz support for many bass applications is spot-on. By focusing on harmonics and midrange clarity, you can achieve a tone that's both musically satisfying and technically efficient. Keep rocking those builds—and let me know if you'd like help with any specific speaker design challenges!
With a track that contains significant bass content at 39Hz, I created a high-pass filtered version using a Linkwitz-Riley 8th-order high-pass filter set to 60Hz. The original track had significant peaks at 70Hz, 80Hz, and 100Hz. The high-pass filtered version lacked the oomph and depth of the original unfiltered track.
As pointed out by @ron68, it does seem that bass players using 5-string bass guitars need to choose their equipment carefully to ensure that it can reproduce that 30.8Hz fundamental with a reasonable degree of fidelity.