I always crimp and then solder. In automotive applications I have seen numerous crimp connections fail because moisture wicked up into the crimp and caused the copper wire to oxidize and turn green. Solder acts as a seal to keep the moisture out.
One reason it's not done commercially is simply the expense.
One reason it's not done commercially is simply the expense.
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Hi,
Just mentioning some statements that took my attention:
"Solder is essentially dead" and "Discussion is over" - Where are the references? Do we have any engineering association that states that? When do this final event took place?
"Many people think when soldering two wires together, they are essentially welding them" - in 56 years as an EE, I never knew anyone that thought soldering was the same as welding. How any tech or engineer with minimum knowledge could think that using a 350C (662F) iron soldering could weld cooper if you need more than 1085C (1984F) to melt cooper?
"Most people were never able to completely do a perfect soldering connection" - Most of equipments I repaired/looked since end of 70's had very good soldering. So it is not the majority. Are there people that don't know how to solder? Yes, but it's not the majority by far, even in a peripheral country like the one where I live. And, there are people that don't know how to correctly crimp.
"With soldering you get a lot of empty spaces" - same as crimping if looked through a microscope
"Solder doesn't resist to vibrations" - the 2 wires on speakers are soldered and strongly vibrate for decades
Soldering and crimping each have their advantages, their disadvantages and especially their implementation constraints.
Soldering has two drawbacks: on the one hand, it does not resist vibrations well, which is why wire soldering is not used at all in the automotive and avionics sectors. It also has an implementation constraint that is too often forgotten. The flux that allows for good soldering must be cleaned. However, when you solder a wire, flux rises into the cable, under the sheath and it will be difficult to clean. As it is very stripping, the remaining flux will attack the cable over time.
Crimping cables on terminals is mandatory in the automotive and avionics sectors. The problem is good control of the crimping pressure. Having worked in avionics, manual crimping with pliers is prohibited. Machine crimping is required to guarantee constant crimping pressure. The jaws must be replaced very regularly (we did it every 1000 crimps) and tear-off checks must be carried out frequently (we did a wire tear-off test on the terminal every 20 crimps, with a measured tear-off force)
Someone mentioned the wires on the speakers. These are wires with terminals that must be mounted on speakers. If the solder you make breaks, you redo it and we don't talk about it anymore. On the other hand, if a solder broke in an airplane at 10,000m altitude, with 300 passengers, it is no longer the same risk.
Soldering has two drawbacks: on the one hand, it does not resist vibrations well, which is why wire soldering is not used at all in the automotive and avionics sectors. It also has an implementation constraint that is too often forgotten. The flux that allows for good soldering must be cleaned. However, when you solder a wire, flux rises into the cable, under the sheath and it will be difficult to clean. As it is very stripping, the remaining flux will attack the cable over time.
Crimping cables on terminals is mandatory in the automotive and avionics sectors. The problem is good control of the crimping pressure. Having worked in avionics, manual crimping with pliers is prohibited. Machine crimping is required to guarantee constant crimping pressure. The jaws must be replaced very regularly (we did it every 1000 crimps) and tear-off checks must be carried out frequently (we did a wire tear-off test on the terminal every 20 crimps, with a measured tear-off force)
Someone mentioned the wires on the speakers. These are wires with terminals that must be mounted on speakers. If the solder you make breaks, you redo it and we don't talk about it anymore. On the other hand, if a solder broke in an airplane at 10,000m altitude, with 300 passengers, it is no longer the same risk.
Note that on the speaker connection, the wires from the terminals to where they pass through the cone to the coil are highly flexible. So the solder joint is not being stressed as it is the (usually) woven interconnect that flexes. The result is no mechanical stress on the solder joint.
When you're in mil-spec business, it's crimping if suitable & swift, but soldering and tight fixing when possible. This involves equipment beyond the mundaine households.
I agree with all of you on posts #25,26,27.
That's why I found strange the video statements: "Solder is essentially dead" and "Discussion is over".
There are cases for soldering and crimping.
That's why I found strange the video statements: "Solder is essentially dead" and "Discussion is over".
There are cases for soldering and crimping.
The title is click bait and so is the dialogue from the start. Isn't it?
I join the ranks of crimp and solder group.
I can't sleep properly until my crimps are soldered.
This method reaches the 20 ampere lug on my DIY electronics.
Above 20 amperes there is no more solder.
If the aircraft I am flying in had butt spliced open air hand solder joints, I may raise an eyebrow. Ha.
I have to crimp 60 ampere to 200 ampere lugs onto large cables at work. The lugs are expensive and the tools used to cost a small fortune. After installations pass arc flash and ramp up for use, the lugs are all analyzed with thermal image cameras when they are loaded. Just a few years ago, this was in a commercial/industrial environment but today many electrical contractors use thermal temperature imaging to verify service entrance conductors and branch wiring in homes.
As a DIYer you could fire up your giant power amp projects and load test it and analyze the connections with thermal imaging.
We can find a bad crimp these days on a shoestring budget.
I wish the gutters on my house were soldered...
I can't sleep properly until my crimps are soldered.
This method reaches the 20 ampere lug on my DIY electronics.
Above 20 amperes there is no more solder.
If the aircraft I am flying in had butt spliced open air hand solder joints, I may raise an eyebrow. Ha.
I have to crimp 60 ampere to 200 ampere lugs onto large cables at work. The lugs are expensive and the tools used to cost a small fortune. After installations pass arc flash and ramp up for use, the lugs are all analyzed with thermal image cameras when they are loaded. Just a few years ago, this was in a commercial/industrial environment but today many electrical contractors use thermal temperature imaging to verify service entrance conductors and branch wiring in homes.
As a DIYer you could fire up your giant power amp projects and load test it and analyze the connections with thermal imaging.
We can find a bad crimp these days on a shoestring budget.
I wish the gutters on my house were soldered...
I was going to say that but forgot. Yes, the entire edit presents as click bait to me. Obvious many others do not see it that way.
The wires on the steering wheel of my car are soldered. Steering wheels vibrate and have temperature variations.
Like crimped wires can't come loose or break ?
Like crimped wires can't come loose or break ?
Please note the solder/crimp choice is heavily dependent on the current running through the connection. Nice to solder for hobby/low power purposes but pro/high current stuff mostly is crimped. In energy distribution there is even no soldering at all. This is because of mr. Hendrik A. Lorentz.
Soldering wire, certainly the solid variant, straight to PCBs is asking for trouble with today's PCB material quality. Leadfree solder (sodder in the video 🙂) did not make that exactly better either. Mechanical force, crimping and expanding because of temperature etc. will eventually peel the PCB pad/track off the epoxy. Anyone involved in Chinese low cost audio will for sure know exactly what I mean.
Now the question is how to crimp right 🙂
Soldering wire, certainly the solid variant, straight to PCBs is asking for trouble with today's PCB material quality. Leadfree solder (sodder in the video 🙂) did not make that exactly better either. Mechanical force, crimping and expanding because of temperature etc. will eventually peel the PCB pad/track off the epoxy. Anyone involved in Chinese low cost audio will for sure know exactly what I mean.
Now the question is how to crimp right 🙂
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No, it's not to do with expense. Those that do this for a living are taught in tech school (my son is a heavy machinery mechanic) that soldering makes the wire stiffer and may lead to fractures. Leaving the strands separate allows them to slip against each other when bent, which is the whole reason for using stranded wire. Yes, I acknowledge that soldering would potentially just move the bend somewhere else, but I defer to the learned tech people.
BTW I used to do what you do (solder and crimp) until my son told me why I shouldn't do it on cars. Yeah, I may still if access is poor...
Another problem (already mentioned above) it that flux can't be fully removed and can cause corrosion.
As an aside, I've found the Taiwanese brand 'OPT' make really good quality crimping tools that are reasonably price.
It depends on the composition of the specific flux, but even solder manufacturers state that some fluxes may cause corrosion on metals if not cleaned off (and I don't think they're talking about plumbing flux).
That said, I wouldn't worry about it except for, say, wires on my car ECU that are critical to reliability and in a harsh environment. I definitely wouldn't care about it on an audio device.
That said, I wouldn't worry about it except for, say, wires on my car ECU that are critical to reliability and in a harsh environment. I definitely wouldn't care about it on an audio device.
With the correct tool from Molex that costs like $900 (to do 16-22ga wire contacts).
Back in the heyday of cable and satellite TV, the “correct” tool to install F connectors on coax in the field was restricted to sale to licensed professionals ONLY. Both were measures to ensure that hobbyist tools used by DIYers could never do the job correctly and would produce inferior results. So we soldered the @#$&%& things.
Just an example of soldering actually done in avionics (a google result) https://eshop.aero/products/sumitom...MI74_N3cTuiwMV85aDBx3R5iYbEAQYBiABEgLfPfD_BwE