According to the specs on the Dayton site the woofer has an SPL of 94 dB@1W, the tweeter 89 dB@1W.
That is a huge mismatch, and cannot easiliy be corrected. Putting a resistive attenuator in the woofer path is bad practice because it will increase the required low impedance source.
Putting 4 ohms (yes!) tweeters in series instead of 1 x 8 ohms will double the power in each tweeter and the SPL increases with 3 dB. That might or might not be sufficient to bridge the 5 dB in difference.
So the original order with 4 ohms tweeters was not bad at all, although it seems you need at least 4. Or select a different woofer.
IMHO a much better match would be a DC160-8 which has a 3 dB lower SPL than your tweeter. The tweeter SPL can easiy be adjusted using an L-pad or 2 resistors. Besides, the DC160 has a much better bass response, extends further to the low frequencies than the MB620. Which indeed looks more like a low midrange as @friendly1uk states.
That is a huge mismatch, and cannot easiliy be corrected. Putting a resistive attenuator in the woofer path is bad practice because it will increase the required low impedance source.
Putting 4 ohms (yes!) tweeters in series instead of 1 x 8 ohms will double the power in each tweeter and the SPL increases with 3 dB. That might or might not be sufficient to bridge the 5 dB in difference.
So the original order with 4 ohms tweeters was not bad at all, although it seems you need at least 4. Or select a different woofer.
IMHO a much better match would be a DC160-8 which has a 3 dB lower SPL than your tweeter. The tweeter SPL can easiy be adjusted using an L-pad or 2 resistors. Besides, the DC160 has a much better bass response, extends further to the low frequencies than the MB620. Which indeed looks more like a low midrange as @friendly1uk states.
No (big) problem once you include baffle step loss and inductor dc resistance.
You could even use a higher resistance coil for the woofer, if you really need to.
Still, it's a midrange, for PA systems. It's 3db down by 200hz, and 10db down at 100hz.
That DC160 looks a good call
https://blackdotaudio.eu/gfx/1627493160.02.jpg
It's 3db down at 50hz, and you could play it down to 30hz and still hear it.
The midrange, not so much. It's 18db down at 50hz. That 94db is really high, in both sensitivity, and where in the response curve it falls. The OP just wants to buy a x-over, and tbh, trying to correct this using a x-over isn't right.
The DC160 page says 2khz. It gets bought with that tweeter a lot, but I don't see what crossover people are buying in that 'often bought together' list.
That DC160 looks a good call
https://blackdotaudio.eu/gfx/1627493160.02.jpg
It's 3db down at 50hz, and you could play it down to 30hz and still hear it.
The midrange, not so much. It's 18db down at 50hz. That 94db is really high, in both sensitivity, and where in the response curve it falls. The OP just wants to buy a x-over, and tbh, trying to correct this using a x-over isn't right.
The DC160 page says 2khz. It gets bought with that tweeter a lot, but I don't see what crossover people are buying in that 'often bought together' list.
2 way yes. hopefully, if i did it right, it will pick up where my sub leaves off. i ended up going with RS150P-8A. It's a 6" woofer good from 49hz- 10000hz. It will get crossedover at 2500 hz to a DC28FT 1-1/8 soft dome tweeter. Both drivers are from Dayton. I'm trying to be conservative on my 1st build. But specs say they should compliment each other well. The crossover is prebuilt. Again me being conservative and not wanting to tackle too much at once. At worst, I'll end up with a pair of speakers for my shop. Will definitely not be audiophile grade but i hope to work up to that
luckily, i forgot to click the last button to make that order and thanks to this post, have ordered a woofer tweeter that should play well together. So much yet to learn . I hope someday to be able to help someone else out in this forum or anothr. Thnks for your time and suggestions
Just looked up that driver, and feel some admiration towards it. The construction is nice. I didn't look really deeply into it, but circled backed to an idea from a previous poster. L-Pads. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007357096613.html
Your woofer states 87.5db and the tweeter 90db. This is very normal, and not something people tend to avoid when choosing parts. However, the tweeter being louder, will probably need addressing. Now, we could choose the right resistors to quieten down the tish tish by 1.5db, right now. We can point you towards that, certainly, but we can't totally guess your circumstances and preferences. I keep just one L-pad on my shelf, because I paid far too much locally, to have two. It's just test equipment. I tend to drop a wire out through a bass port or such, to dangle the L-pad (attenuator) where I can spend a week tweeking it. Only when I'm happy, does the multimeter come out to see what I actually set it as, in order to buy some permanent fixed resistors to do the job better. We do see older speakers with the things mounted permanently in the speaker baffle, but nice quality one's with nice faceplates are something you could easy drop 100 on, then never touch them again.
This $25 might be what makes your speakers good. From excessive tweeter, to just right. You don't need to keep them, you could even sell one straight away. They just let you find what works for you, and then they can be swapped for decent resistors. Perhaps 3 wire-wound ceramics per cab, so not a big expense.
Your woofer states 87.5db and the tweeter 90db. This is very normal, and not something people tend to avoid when choosing parts. However, the tweeter being louder, will probably need addressing. Now, we could choose the right resistors to quieten down the tish tish by 1.5db, right now. We can point you towards that, certainly, but we can't totally guess your circumstances and preferences. I keep just one L-pad on my shelf, because I paid far too much locally, to have two. It's just test equipment. I tend to drop a wire out through a bass port or such, to dangle the L-pad (attenuator) where I can spend a week tweeking it. Only when I'm happy, does the multimeter come out to see what I actually set it as, in order to buy some permanent fixed resistors to do the job better. We do see older speakers with the things mounted permanently in the speaker baffle, but nice quality one's with nice faceplates are something you could easy drop 100 on, then never touch them again.
This $25 might be what makes your speakers good. From excessive tweeter, to just right. You don't need to keep them, you could even sell one straight away. They just let you find what works for you, and then they can be swapped for decent resistors. Perhaps 3 wire-wound ceramics per cab, so not a big expense.
Result from an online calc here: https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/DriverAttenuationLPadCircuit/
I said 10w input, as a tweeter doesn't get a huge share of the power. The ceramics tend to be 3watt 5watt sort of sizes, and postage costs more than the parts. I'm not saying 1.5db is right for your situation though. It just matches the drivers (though I would check they are 87.5 and 90 again, as I may of been sleeping)
I think the idea of using an L-Pad to trim the attenuation by ear is good and necessary. As @friendly1uk said. And then for an extended period of time. And indeed, at least a week of testing. And at both speakers at the same time so you need 2 L-pads. Having said that, maybe it is worth to just keep the L-Pads. Or eventually replace them if you are very sure and need the L-Pad for your next pair of speakers.
Especially if you want to also tweak you crossover adjustable attenuation of the tweeters is very much needed. It is hard to hear the difference between errors in the crossover filter (like a hump at the crossover frequency) and too loud a tweeter.
Especially if you want to also tweak you crossover adjustable attenuation of the tweeters is very much needed. It is hard to hear the difference between errors in the crossover filter (like a hump at the crossover frequency) and too loud a tweeter.
Humps at 2.5khz are horrible imo. If we tried to attenuate the tweeter with just a couple of ohms in series, the resulting 10 ohm the crossover saw, would lower the tweeter crossover to 2khz. Leaving the bass and tweeter both playing 2khz to 2.5khz. An area I actually like lowering, if anything. So if choosing fixed L-pad resistors meant 'close' values, but not exact ones.. I would move the tweeter x-over up a few hz, rather than down. However, we are not quite there yet.
You can easily design a crossover filters on one of the tens of website which offer a script to do so. Almost all of them let you choose a single crossover frequency. And then give you component values for 12 dB lo-pass and hi-pass with the same -3 dB point at crossover.
This usually results in a 3 dB hump at crossover, and exactly where most 2-way systems do crossover somewhere 2-3 kHz. That is horrible indeed.
If you are unaware that this is happening you are trying to attenuate the tweeter because the perception is that there is too much treble. Whatever you do with attenuation, is seldomly ends up in a acceptable solution, if ever.
Indeed one of the correction solutions is to shift the tweeter crossover to the point where the filter cross point is at -6 dB or so. I wonder if those pre-built crossovers like sold by Dayton take this into account. I never used one but it would be interesting to know.
I agree it can be difficult to hear and I understand the appeal of this.
I don't do it this way myself, which is easy to say unfortunately. If the needed blend and phase relationship at the cross can be determined in advance, it can be done by measurements. Voicing on the other hand is not so easy but if it can be tuned using an equaliser then the tone can be changed on both drivers without changing the cross.
I bought 1 L pad per speaker to be safe. If it turns out I dont need them then I'll have them for the next build. This one has been a bit of a shitshow. Unprepared and undereducated. But, I have learned some things. Mostly from yall and your help. Its much appreciated. I will post pics when it comes together
We will find out about the crossovers. I will make another post when i get them built. I really appreciate your help. Maybe now that I know a little more about what to look for, i will attempt to build the crossovers on my next build. Or even this one if i cant get them in tune. My enclosure will have an area partitioned off from everything else where it and the L pad will be. It sounded like a good use for the little bit of dead space I have. I'm not at my home computer to show this but will post pics hopefully in a couple weeks of some completed and fingers crossed, good sounding speakers. They were a learning tool if nothing else
Modding the crossovers will be easy enough, if you do have a hump. Almost certainly, you would move the tweeter up a bit. Tweeters like that, and as part values fall to accomplish a shift upward, the cost situation is nice. You can physically take turns off the inductor, and just spend a tenner on a cap. Easy life.
I often play white noise, or sweeps, from youtube. I have a phone app called spectroid that shows very quickly how loud each frequency is. Just using the phones mic. It's not perfect, but very useful. Sometimes just looking for a flat response isn't actually what the individual wants though. A classic example, is the BBC Dip, which many manufacturers adopted. As AllenB said, sometimes a graphic equaliser (app?) can help us take a good flat response speaker, and adjust it to our preference. A big hole around 3khz can actually be appealing, hence few would want a hump there.
The shop is full of different speakers, even at 100 sheets, because the computer can't pick what we all want. You can though 🙂
I often play white noise, or sweeps, from youtube. I have a phone app called spectroid that shows very quickly how loud each frequency is. Just using the phones mic. It's not perfect, but very useful. Sometimes just looking for a flat response isn't actually what the individual wants though. A classic example, is the BBC Dip, which many manufacturers adopted. As AllenB said, sometimes a graphic equaliser (app?) can help us take a good flat response speaker, and adjust it to our preference. A big hole around 3khz can actually be appealing, hence few would want a hump there.
The shop is full of different speakers, even at 100 sheets, because the computer can't pick what we all want. You can though 🙂