Like I already told in my forum introduction, these projects were the reason I joined to this forum. I want to build speakers, preferably as cheap as possible. My wife has some kind of fixation for white Genelecs, and I can't see them as an option. For our home cinema purpose, 8020's are probably too "little" and 8030's are way too expensive (they both are actually). Our room is 6 meters long and 4 meters wide, and the height is 2.6m, TV is mounted on the wall and our couch is next to other end wall. So the distance from the front speakers to ear will be almost 6 meters (when watching a movie).
I think we could start from 2.1 system and add other speakers later. Audio quality doesn't have to be as perfect as those Genelecs have, and I'm sure 100dB is more than enough for our needs. Just that those speakers need to look as close to Genelecs as possible (because it fits for our decoration). I can handle that part, but I have no clue about the hardware I should buy...or that if this project is even possible for decent price. I know there are some studio monitors that comes quite close to Genelecs for half the price, so maybe I just buy those and make them new casings 🤔
Then another question. I have some old car stereo speakers lying around. JBL and DLE 12" subwoofers, and 5.25" separate system (I think it was DLS...EDIT. No, they were Macrom UNS 5.1). None of them are expensive, but I'm curious if they can be used for anything. How does a car sw work in home theatre if you don't need awfully lot of bass and volume, and what to use as an amp (I have 1 or 2 car amps also)? And how would this separate 5.25 system work as an soundbar (for a gaming console in different room)? Any interesting ideas and suggestions?
I think we could start from 2.1 system and add other speakers later. Audio quality doesn't have to be as perfect as those Genelecs have, and I'm sure 100dB is more than enough for our needs. Just that those speakers need to look as close to Genelecs as possible (because it fits for our decoration). I can handle that part, but I have no clue about the hardware I should buy...or that if this project is even possible for decent price. I know there are some studio monitors that comes quite close to Genelecs for half the price, so maybe I just buy those and make them new casings 🤔
Then another question. I have some old car stereo speakers lying around. JBL and DLE 12" subwoofers, and 5.25" separate system (I think it was DLS...EDIT. No, they were Macrom UNS 5.1). None of them are expensive, but I'm curious if they can be used for anything. How does a car sw work in home theatre if you don't need awfully lot of bass and volume, and what to use as an amp (I have 1 or 2 car amps also)? And how would this separate 5.25 system work as an soundbar (for a gaming console in different room)? Any interesting ideas and suggestions?
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“Just that those speakers need to look as close to Genelecs as possible (because it fits for our decoration)”
Rounded/contoured enclosures with seamless waveguides and no screws showing are not cheap or easy to make on a small scale. On a large scale, you create molds and make them out of injection molded plastic. Economies of scale really help bring down manufacturing costs.
On the prototype level, a very small scale like what you want, you will likely have to find a place that can CNC your panels. You’ll need to 3D render them and send them the .step files if you can’t find a design online. CNC time could be a couple hundred dollars? It just depends.
A slightly different approach, here is a DIY kit with a slick looking front baffle - one piece, with a waveguide. You can paint it any color you want. It’s a basic box with parallel walls, butt joints, and no edge finishing (round overs, bevels, etc). Aside from the fancy baffle, the enclosure is about as inexpensive to make as you can get while still being of quality. It does not use high end parts, yet it’s nearly $1k/pair.
https://audiofirstdesigns.co.uk/fidelia
Alternatively, you could go with a traditional rectangular box and add a waveguide to it. Without high quality finishing work, seams and screws will still show. Here’s a commercial speaker to illustrate what I mean.
Rounded/contoured enclosures with seamless waveguides and no screws showing are not cheap or easy to make on a small scale. On a large scale, you create molds and make them out of injection molded plastic. Economies of scale really help bring down manufacturing costs.
On the prototype level, a very small scale like what you want, you will likely have to find a place that can CNC your panels. You’ll need to 3D render them and send them the .step files if you can’t find a design online. CNC time could be a couple hundred dollars? It just depends.
A slightly different approach, here is a DIY kit with a slick looking front baffle - one piece, with a waveguide. You can paint it any color you want. It’s a basic box with parallel walls, butt joints, and no edge finishing (round overs, bevels, etc). Aside from the fancy baffle, the enclosure is about as inexpensive to make as you can get while still being of quality. It does not use high end parts, yet it’s nearly $1k/pair.
https://audiofirstdesigns.co.uk/fidelia
Alternatively, you could go with a traditional rectangular box and add a waveguide to it. Without high quality finishing work, seams and screws will still show. Here’s a commercial speaker to illustrate what I mean.
When a man says he will handle it, he WILL handle it, OK 🤣
Ok, in reality they will probably not be 100% copies and they will probably not be 100% to each other. But of course they need to be so close, that no one, preferably not even my wife, notices the difference when they are opposite corners. And if she will, I like them to be so beautiful, that she just can't complain. I thought, that I will probably make my "mold" by carving and rasp. Then I could make a copy-router, which I could use for final products. I have wanted that copy router anyway. There will be huge amount of work in any case. Or, if I just get one real Genelec and use it with my copy router. That would be perfect.
PS. I really appreciated your thoughts 👍
Ok, in reality they will probably not be 100% copies and they will probably not be 100% to each other. But of course they need to be so close, that no one, preferably not even my wife, notices the difference when they are opposite corners. And if she will, I like them to be so beautiful, that she just can't complain. I thought, that I will probably make my "mold" by carving and rasp. Then I could make a copy-router, which I could use for final products. I have wanted that copy router anyway. There will be huge amount of work in any case. Or, if I just get one real Genelec and use it with my copy router. That would be perfect.
PS. I really appreciated your thoughts 👍
How available is 3D printing to you? Diagonal orientation on a 256mm cubed printer (such as Bambus) could give you an enclosure right between 8020 and 8030 in size. Printed with the proper aesthetic filament you might not even need a separate finish. I worked on a WAW with a look between KEF LSX / Genelec for a while, but took a slightly different route since. Could use the motivation to bring it to existence (maybe not WAW though) 🙂
Most people seem to wind up scolded by their significant other for their audio pursuits. I think you hit the jackpot with a wife that wants Genelecs (or even knows what they are).
Mostly fine, but depends on the exact woofer and how you want to use them. Some car subs don't go super low since there's so much cabin gain at low frequencies that it's not as important there. Many have a lot of excursion, which is useful if you want to equalize the bottom end. Something like Unibox or another modeler will tell you what kind of response you can achieve if you have the Thiele/Small specs.
You'll need a wall voltage to high current 12 VDC power supply to run a big car amp in a home. It's possible, but I'm not sure it's the best use of money or time (especially if your amps are Class D anyway).
Most separates like this are designed for infinite baffle use. If you put them in an enclosure that's too small, you'll lose lower bass performance. If you just want to use them from midbass up you might be OK though. Again, if you have the right specs for them you can model the response and see what they'll do in the size box you want.
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I think I hit the jackpot with my wife in many other aspects too 🙂
So, I probably dump the idea to use any car amps on my projects then. What kind of cabinet would you build for these 5.25" woofers? They are Macrom UNS 5.1 set. This is all the info I can find:
General characteristics
Type: component speakers;
The number of bands: 2;
Power: 100 watts (maximum);
Sensitivity: 90 dB;
Frequency range: 55 - 25000 Hz;
Additionally
Additional information: Impedance 4 Ohm. Crossover on mounting wires. The steepness of the characteristics of the attenuation crossover: 12 dB. Polypropylene WOOFER cone. Magnet bass barium. Suspension LF rubber. Treble cone: silk dome. Magnet tweeter neodymium. Ferrofluid cooling of the RF.;
I'm not gonna waste awfully lot of time with these, at least before I have tried if they are any good. Would be shame if I did something like IWISTAO HIFI Labyrinth Cabinet, use a lot of time, just to notice they suck.
So, I probably dump the idea to use any car amps on my projects then. What kind of cabinet would you build for these 5.25" woofers? They are Macrom UNS 5.1 set. This is all the info I can find:
General characteristics
Type: component speakers;
The number of bands: 2;
Power: 100 watts (maximum);
Sensitivity: 90 dB;
Frequency range: 55 - 25000 Hz;
Additionally
Additional information: Impedance 4 Ohm. Crossover on mounting wires. The steepness of the characteristics of the attenuation crossover: 12 dB. Polypropylene WOOFER cone. Magnet bass barium. Suspension LF rubber. Treble cone: silk dome. Magnet tweeter neodymium. Ferrofluid cooling of the RF.;
I'm not gonna waste awfully lot of time with these, at least before I have tried if they are any good. Would be shame if I did something like IWISTAO HIFI Labyrinth Cabinet, use a lot of time, just to notice they suck.
Unfortunately, those specs don't help design the cabinet. You need things like Qts, Vas, and Fs. Without those, I would just make a sealed enclosure as large as is reasonable for your intended use case and give them a listen. The test box can be thrown together with whatever sheet product is easy for you to get and work with. Something like 1/2 inch plywood or MDF will be fine to get a feel for what they sound like. For my test boxes I often hot glue them together because it's fast. I don't bother with braces or anything fancy at that point either. You can always build a nicer box later if they work well enough for you.
If you know anyone with a DATS, you can measure the speaker parameters pretty easily and design a more refined enclosure.
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...ter-Based-Audio-Component-Test-System-390-807
Or if you're happy with the test box, you can just make a prettier version and be on your merry way. As long as you're having fun and your charming wife is happy, you can ignore a lot of the audiophile details if they don't interest you.
If you know anyone with a DATS, you can measure the speaker parameters pretty easily and design a more refined enclosure.
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...ter-Based-Audio-Component-Test-System-390-807
Or if you're happy with the test box, you can just make a prettier version and be on your merry way. As long as you're having fun and your charming wife is happy, you can ignore a lot of the audiophile details if they don't interest you.
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If so, put them close to the sofa, they are shory distance monitors, not 6 m distance stuffs.
This is what have confused me a bit. I think in my case Genelec G Two would actually be a better option than 8020, but I'm not sure if it helps with distance? Still, people are using these in 5.1 systems etc., even that they are short-distance monitors 🤔
They are over 500€ piece 🙁
They are over 500€ piece 🙁
Set your priorities and save, unless you and your wife don't really want them.
Well, that is what I'm doing here, setting up my priorities and trying to save! So, could someone actually recommend a good components for either active or passive 2-way speakers (which works in small box and are as cheap as possible, but still sound good)?
Hi!
You can measure your drivers with REW (Room Eq Wizard). The software is free and with one resistor you can measure the T/S parameters of your driver's.
https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/impedancemeasurement.html
Then you can use those T/S parameters to design an enclosure using the free Finnish software VituixCAD. See the website for tutorials and the software.
https://kimmosaunisto.net/
At some point you will need a microphone to measure what you've built so you can fine tune it and build a decent crossover/filter. If you have an AV receiver calibration microphone laying around you could use that. This can then again be done with REW. There are many tutorials online for doing this but the best I've found are on the REW website.
Then you are designing like a true cheapskate! 😀
You can measure your drivers with REW (Room Eq Wizard). The software is free and with one resistor you can measure the T/S parameters of your driver's.
https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/impedancemeasurement.html
Then you can use those T/S parameters to design an enclosure using the free Finnish software VituixCAD. See the website for tutorials and the software.
https://kimmosaunisto.net/
At some point you will need a microphone to measure what you've built so you can fine tune it and build a decent crossover/filter. If you have an AV receiver calibration microphone laying around you could use that. This can then again be done with REW. There are many tutorials online for doing this but the best I've found are on the REW website.
Then you are designing like a true cheapskate! 😀
A good option as one can buy only front baffle and drivers. Saves a lot of effort and get a perfect shape...
https://www.peak-lsv.de/fineklang/fineklang.html
https://www.peak-lsv.de/fineklang/fineklang.html
If you want a kit, I don't think you'll get much cheaper than these for reasonable quality. I never can remember what their availability is oversees though. The assembly manual includes a crossover schematic, in case you can get the drivers over there easily, but not the full kit.
C-Note MT Bookshelf Speaker Kit Pair with Knock-Down Cabinets
https://www.parts-express.com/C-Not...-with-Knock-Down-Cabinets-300-7140?quantity=1
There's a non-waveguide version of the tweeter also, if you want to build a more Genelec style waveguide into the enclosure. You'll need to get the z-axis spacing correct for the crossover to work properly.
Or you can probably just hack and add onto the stock cabinet with the included tweeter waveguide and get close to the Genelec look if you have some woodworking/autobody repair experience (or willingness/interest in learning those things).
As you mentioned earlier, another cheap path would be to buy some used speakers of similar style and just modify them. That's pretty low risk as long as you match the driver spacing (in x, y, and z dimensions) and the enclosure volume. Baffle shape will make minor differences in response as long as you are in the ballpark, so you can likely ignore that aspect since it doesn't seem like you're shooting for perfection. Used mid-fi speakers tend to be worth almost nothing in the American market and often wind up getting donated to charities with retail operations (Goodwill is a common one here), but I'm not sure if that's the case where you are. Speakers from good manufacturers are typically pretty nice even in their low-mid priced offerings.
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Here is a shop that sells the C-note kits
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/c-note.html
But they are not in stock for the moment.
If you email them they are very helpful and will help you further.
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/c-note.html
But they are not in stock for the moment.
If you email them they are very helpful and will help you further.
You can't make cheaper diy than the less 400 euros pair I linked you (and that has at the same time good sensivity and white for the WAF). Behringer K8 also worth a look, but it is active and less pretty.
Of course not, the radiation patern is made for nearfield if not desktop monitoring. There are also decibels dive due to the need of the first posts : certainly aroundd 5 metrs real listening disstance. 5,5" to 8" will be my choice f all should be connected to the TV without BT or wifi.
Btw Neumannn has also white monitors for less much price than G. but again I would not insiste of monitoring stuff for HT and long distance, just the basics, YMMV.
Edit, of course if the monitors are close to less than 2 meetrs from the sofa and the bass cabinet behind the sofa or at one side and receives the streaming audio flux from the receiver near the tv by BT pr wifi, it is another story...
Just my 2 cents.
Btw Neumannn has also white monitors for less much price than G. but again I would not insiste of monitoring stuff for HT and long distance, just the basics, YMMV.
Edit, of course if the monitors are close to less than 2 meetrs from the sofa and the bass cabinet behind the sofa or at one side and receives the streaming audio flux from the receiver near the tv by BT pr wifi, it is another story...
Just my 2 cents.
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