The point is that what we can see in the pictures, is that the unit is not built robust enough for regular shipping, so the risk of a DEFOA (defect on arrival) is very present. You can only listen to it, if it is fully functional.
I'm not really doing that, although I do put sometimes Linear Audio on the faceplate. But increasingly I put a SilentSwitcher inside the box 😎
@jan.didden
Jan, before the SilentSwitcher... how many super regs would you use?
- one per channel?
- one per each stage?
You guys did suggest the more the merrier along the diminishing returns curve.
My upcoming BA2018 balanced preamp will include a super reg per channel (I thought a regulator per board was hard to implement overkill but... )
I've been thinking about installing the two SilentSwitchers I just bought into a Pearl 3 build. Got a logo for that? ;-)
Jan, before the SilentSwitcher... how many super regs would you use?
- one per channel?
- one per each stage?
You guys did suggest the more the merrier along the diminishing returns curve.
My upcoming BA2018 balanced preamp will include a super reg per channel (I thought a regulator per board was hard to implement overkill but... )
I've been thinking about installing the two SilentSwitchers I just bought into a Pearl 3 build. Got a logo for that? ;-)
@Jarno:
Perhaps, you see that, but I don’t. What I see is a product that appears to have been carelessly dropped on to some hard surface. Sure, there are a few manufactures, such as Krell, whose products are famously built like the proverbial tank, but their overbuild is just that, overbuild. Which is fine for those customers who deem such important. It also looks in the video as though unit may have been partially disassembled by someone unqualified to work in it, and left in that state out of frustration before shipping to Mark. Certainly, there are key unanswered questions from the video to blithely cast any blanket assertions. Generally speaking, though, and not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, because you know who you are, there seems to be the desire here to unfairly ridicule the unit because of its price based only on the visual condition in which it arrived to Mark’s service shop.
Regarding that price, there certainly are other similarly priced ultra high-end components, so that’s nothing particularly unusual about this model. Since I doubt (perhaps, I’m wrong) that any of us have heard, or measured, this component the criticism here seems based solely on the its damaged arrival state to Mark. Which, apart from not knowing how much it had been physically abused, is as consequence of the philosophy of utilizing a polymer enclosure and also a consequence of its being a hand-built at super low unit-volume, cottage industry production. So, yes, it does not appear to have been built to survive an atomic bomb attack, nor the tossing on to a hard floor by gorillas and remain fully intact. The shame.
Perhaps, you see that, but I don’t. What I see is a product that appears to have been carelessly dropped on to some hard surface. Sure, there are a few manufactures, such as Krell, whose products are famously built like the proverbial tank, but their overbuild is just that, overbuild. Which is fine for those customers who deem such important. It also looks in the video as though unit may have been partially disassembled by someone unqualified to work in it, and left in that state out of frustration before shipping to Mark. Certainly, there are key unanswered questions from the video to blithely cast any blanket assertions. Generally speaking, though, and not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, because you know who you are, there seems to be the desire here to unfairly ridicule the unit because of its price based only on the visual condition in which it arrived to Mark’s service shop.
Regarding that price, there certainly are other similarly priced ultra high-end components, so that’s nothing particularly unusual about this model. Since I doubt (perhaps, I’m wrong) that any of us have heard, or measured, this component the criticism here seems based solely on the its damaged arrival state to Mark. Which, apart from not knowing how much it had been physically abused, is as consequence of the philosophy of utilizing a polymer enclosure and also a consequence of its being a hand-built at super low unit-volume, cottage industry production. So, yes, it does not appear to have been built to survive an atomic bomb attack, nor the tossing on to a hard floor by gorillas and remain fully intact. The shame.
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@jan.didden
I wasn't really asking for specific advice but rather your experience with your builds which might be instructive in this context.
I wasn't really asking for specific advice but rather your experience with your builds which might be instructive in this context.
Great. Were any of these benefits measurable?
I'm curious where this came from. Was it directed at me or someone else?
I don't see anything wrong with "intel inside" type marketing.
There has been a lot of development in the voltage regulator IC market over the past 1-2 decades. Much of that development has been driven by the need for clean power supplies in cell phones and cell phone base stations. That's at least in part why we now have linear regulators that offer significant line rejection well into the RF band. They also offer stellar performance at the 100-120 Hz + harmonics needed for audio. On top of this, modern opamps offer excellent power supply rejection, so I strongly doubt there will be any measurable effect of stacking regulators with today's parts.
But, of course, it wouldn't be the first time in audio that someone threw a technically sound argument out in favour of a "my wife came running from the kitchen" argument. 🙂
For those curious about what I would consider to be a well-executed, (likely) well-designed commercial build that attracts a high price, have a look at the Boulder 2108 phono stage: https://boulderamp.com/products/2108-phono-preamplifier/
The 2108 is "only" about twice the cost of the DIY project shown in Post #1 but absolutely exudes quality. Notice the detail in the chassis construction, including the O-ring on the little drawer/module used for setting the cartridge load.
That's the level of construction I expect if you're going to command a 5-digit price tag, especially once you go deep into the five digits.
Tom
There are definitely a number of unanswered questions about the history of the amp in the video. But the history does not change:
- Use of nylon standoffs, which get brittle and break easily, especially when used to build tall subassemblies
- Use of random, raw PCB pieces for "shielding"
- Heat sinks attached to the PCB only by the semiconductor device pins
- Etc.
It wouldn't take a lot extra work or expense to turn this into a quality build. Start with a nice metal chassis (or sub-chassis if you really want the plastic exterior). Use metal hardware. Make wiring harnesses. Attach heat sinks to the PCBs with brackets. We're talking maybe $10 extra per build. And, if you really want those "shielding" boards, have them manufactured so they at least look professional.
Tom
You'd have to ask them. The Pearl is a modern design with modern components.
You complained about Evans' use of regulators and characterized it as a "marketing thing".
There are good reasons for using multiple regulators -- separate ones for each channel being chief amongst these. Ask Jan... and Walt. And the builders who've been happy they did.
Many commercial manufacturers argue for their products on the basis of their design decisions. A multitude of regulators is not a rare argument though most haven't designed their own regulator. Sales pitch? Marketing? Technical exposition? All three?
Evans named his series of regulators "Lithos". Like the computer manufacturers he stuck a label on the outside... for marketing I guess.
You've basically said you're happy with all this. Good.
It would seem others in the marketplace have figured this out. 🙂
Pass XP-27 for example. And it's only $12k USD
jeff
There may be instances where this would be a good idea.
Just as there are instances where spike tires on a car are a good idea.
Not all cars benefit from spike tires in all circumstances.
Jan
As long as users think it's great, there will be manufacturers that will put them in.
There are manufacturers that lay out the PC board and put in specific chips with an eye to Stereophile publishing georgeous pictures from the insides.
Everything to increase sales in a cuttroath market.
Jan
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The TE Master groove comes from Tom in a lovely double boxed case with plenty of protection. This unit was obviously not shipped in the original packaging. It looked like it had been dropped on its corner directly, of just through a single layer box, not the amp in foam, in box, in foam, in box it's ships in from TE. The original packaging befits it's price, even if the diy construction doesn't.
So are we near the end of the era of regulation of power supply rails in audio?
I thought the design concepts for the pre-amp were ok, but it was rather awkwardly executed, IMO.
Firstly I think a lot of the seperate boards could have been on fewer, bigger PCBs, ideally one per channel.
Secondly the PSU was somewhat baffling, but then again i don't know what was in it. But the preamp was in a large box, so some sealed lead acid batteries like the Yuasa NP7-12, that charged when off, and were used when on, would IMO be neater.
Firstly I think a lot of the seperate boards could have been on fewer, bigger PCBs, ideally one per channel.
Secondly the PSU was somewhat baffling, but then again i don't know what was in it. But the preamp was in a large box, so some sealed lead acid batteries like the Yuasa NP7-12, that charged when off, and were used when on, would IMO be neater.
Here's my thought on this (or any other product audio or not), it's price is what it is because someone is willing to pay that price. I make no claims on the quality of the product in that statement or anything about who is purchasing the product.
If not enough buy at a price, mfg should lower the price. Fair efficient market I think it's called.
And as an aside the mfg in question makes more than just the 25k phono. He has amps, and other products to sell, so his business income would be tied to many pieces, hopefully with a unified marketing front. His revenue should be more than 10/year $25k phono stage.
If not enough buy at a price, mfg should lower the price. Fair efficient market I think it's called.
And as an aside the mfg in question makes more than just the 25k phono. He has amps, and other products to sell, so his business income would be tied to many pieces, hopefully with a unified marketing front. His revenue should be more than 10/year $25k phono stage.
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