Hello,
Mostly ignorant of speakers rules ,white hair.
In the picture is what i build for home use.
Three separate boxes because this would allow new variants.
They need to be glued, but I'm not sure even if it doesn't sound bad .
Speakers Ciare HWB200-8 ,Visaton w130s,Monacor DT25N.
Simple filter (first and second order (?)) designed with some help with Xsim and FPGraphTracer.
Bass box internal dimensions 61.6x25x35cm, Vnet=51.5L(WinISD), port Dv7.2cm Lv15cm double front panel and two transverse reinforcements.
Please ignore the high standards you have for your works and give me some tips .
What can be done better,bass box dimensions ratio ,port and speaker location...
Thank you and sorry for any mistakes, it's google translate.
Mostly ignorant of speakers rules ,white hair.
In the picture is what i build for home use.
Three separate boxes because this would allow new variants.
They need to be glued, but I'm not sure even if it doesn't sound bad .
Speakers Ciare HWB200-8 ,Visaton w130s,Monacor DT25N.
Simple filter (first and second order (?)) designed with some help with Xsim and FPGraphTracer.
Bass box internal dimensions 61.6x25x35cm, Vnet=51.5L(WinISD), port Dv7.2cm Lv15cm double front panel and two transverse reinforcements.
Please ignore the high standards you have for your works and give me some tips .
What can be done better,bass box dimensions ratio ,port and speaker location...
Thank you and sorry for any mistakes, it's google translate.
Attachments
Do you find it has places where it stands out or is harsh? How's the tonal balance?
I guess for a start there's an opportunity in reducing the midrange top end, allowing the tweeter to take on the lower treble.
I guess for a start there's an opportunity in reducing the midrange top end, allowing the tweeter to take on the lower treble.
Good question, thank you.
I can find out the answer by trying and making comparisons ,so please tell me .
I can find out the answer by trying and making comparisons ,so please tell me .
Great way to learn! I've used the DT25 for well over 20 years, a truly excellent (and cheap) tweeter, only comment - doesn't even need a box, just mount it on a plinth.
Just my views of course!
Good experimenting!
Just my views of course!
Good experimenting!
Use the impedance curve of the woofer in the box and apply baffle step.
Cover the walls of the bass cabinet with some stuffing material (rockwool or similar) and fill the mid cabinet too.
I like it simple too but you have to notch down that peak at 6KHz.
Anyway that's my take: dimensions, ctc center distances and box volume (20L stuffed) of the mid are just a guess.
Cover the walls of the bass cabinet with some stuffing material (rockwool or similar) and fill the mid cabinet too.
I like it simple too but you have to notch down that peak at 6KHz.
Anyway that's my take: dimensions, ctc center distances and box volume (20L stuffed) of the mid are just a guess.
Greets!
Can't do it completely in that I choose XO points based primarily on matching up polar responses with 1st order XOs, so ~379 Hz, 3400 Hz with zoebels and ideally keep the vertical spacing to < 1/4 WL along with critically damping the vent.
Note you want any peaking down at least -24 dB and preferably -36 dB, so may need some notch filters.
As for the bass box, it ideally needs to be rigid enough to raise its Fs or massive enough to lower it at least a couple of octaves with 1st order XOs.
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Hmm, what am I missing here? They recommend 2500 Hz/2nd, so bumped it up some to allow 1st order......
That makes sense, and the tweeter looks OK in that respect. It's just that the mid isn't fitting in.
I really appreciate your very honest posts and I hope there will be more.
Thank you @shadowplay62 for your simulation, it took some time, I appreciate it.
It is very different from my filters, must to study it to understand better.
Thank you @GM for all the information provided ,thank you @AllenB for your support.
I don't know the terms used well, I hope to interpret your messages correctly.
I will try to add in Xsim zobel for those fr.,"some notch filters" and change media.
This may take some time for me .
Maybe if I put the xsim file here , someone more skilled than me will solve this easily.
Then compare with the simulation offered by @shadowplay62
The complex filters are also expensive, can it be simpler by replacing w130s?-in the same price range.
I forgot to say the listening room is approx. 20 square meters,the height of 2.5m ,some furniture, listening distance 3-4m , low volume <<30w.
(I also have DDVP20 with SB20FRPC30-8 and a tw)
"ideally keep the vertical spacing to < 1/4 WL"
I calculated and the numbers tell me that for a cut below 400hz w130s must be very close to Ciare
Can't get this , just to move the woofer as close as possible to the upper wall .
And I hope the sound will be the same or maybe better.
Thank you @shadowplay62 for your simulation, it took some time, I appreciate it.
It is very different from my filters, must to study it to understand better.
Thank you @GM for all the information provided ,thank you @AllenB for your support.
I don't know the terms used well, I hope to interpret your messages correctly.
I will try to add in Xsim zobel for those fr.,"some notch filters" and change media.
This may take some time for me .
Maybe if I put the xsim file here , someone more skilled than me will solve this easily.
Then compare with the simulation offered by @shadowplay62
The complex filters are also expensive, can it be simpler by replacing w130s?-in the same price range.
I forgot to say the listening room is approx. 20 square meters,the height of 2.5m ,some furniture, listening distance 3-4m , low volume <<30w.
(I also have DDVP20 with SB20FRPC30-8 and a tw)
"ideally keep the vertical spacing to < 1/4 WL"
I calculated and the numbers tell me that for a cut below 400hz w130s must be very close to Ciare
Can't get this , just to move the woofer as close as possible to the upper wall .
And I hope the sound will be the same or maybe better.
Hi Victoran
I know that some components are expensive but only the 51uF cap (you can also use a 47 uF) and the cap in series with the tweeter need to be PE or PP but you could also use bipolars like this
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/mund...00-raw-capacitor-100vdc-32vac-47f-p-4267.html
Below are the files I used in my sim so you can input them in XSim and play with them. All files have been manipulated with VituixCad diffraction tool.
I know that some components are expensive but only the 51uF cap (you can also use a 47 uF) and the cap in series with the tweeter need to be PE or PP but you could also use bipolars like this
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/mund...00-raw-capacitor-100vdc-32vac-47f-p-4267.html
Below are the files I used in my sim so you can input them in XSim and play with them. All files have been manipulated with VituixCad diffraction tool.
I don't want to discourage you, but FPGraphTracer cannot help you get a good speaker. Graphs extracted from d.s. mean nothing real. Your xsim graph looks bad, looks like your speakers giving no dynamic and is too bright, also phase looks like wrong on all 3 speakers even your pictures shows no phase informtion I see that sum of all 3 speakers shows wrong phase. Very important thing with speakers is the phase graph, especially with 3 way and up speakers, it is very difficult to propertly combine all phases of the all three speakers, especially if you don't have a device for speaker measurement to get real phase information, you can't get a good speaker even close to something called ok! I can suggest you, get some money and buy this https://www.audiomatica.com/wp/?page_id=3557 everything else is a waste of time and waste of money, from my experience you will never be satisfied with the sound. The frd and zma you find on the net will mean nothing, you have to get them yourself by measuring! Only then you can start experimenting with speakers, crossovers...etc. Also consider replacing those laminated chipboard with something better e.g. MDF or multilayer plywood or booth combined. I can sugest also http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm Wish you all the best!
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@shadowplay62-
Thank you for the files and for the encouraging message.
Your files are different from mine : "manipulated with VituixCad diffraction tool."
Would it be possible to explain what it means?
(Vituix CAD it's in my laptop to and many others )
@savan
Thank you for the post, there is a lot of useful information .
You are right ,I can't get a good quality ,that quality obtained by a professional.
It will be how much quality I can get and the pleasure for DIY.
Now I don't know how to identify the phase errors in the graphs.
If you want, please tell me something about them.
Maybe you remember your first projects when you didn't have the knowledge and experience you have now.
Thank you for the files and for the encouraging message.
Your files are different from mine : "manipulated with VituixCad diffraction tool."
Would it be possible to explain what it means?
(Vituix CAD it's in my laptop to and many others )
@savan
Thank you for the post, there is a lot of useful information .
You are right ,I can't get a good quality ,that quality obtained by a professional.
It will be how much quality I can get and the pleasure for DIY.
Now I don't know how to identify the phase errors in the graphs.
If you want, please tell me something about them.
Maybe you remember your first projects when you didn't have the knowledge and experience you have now.
Yes xo test waxx looks good, but do in mind those frd and zma is not obtained from real speakers from box, for the real things, phase and freq response real measurements is need! Victorian take a look at doted lines, thats phase from all 3 speakers, see how close is one over other, as close to each other is need and waxx done that very good, I just fine tuned freq response. Do in mind this is just an example what you need to do, I not recommend making speaker and crossower by this since real measurement is need, this might be wrong at all!
An fine tune to impedance is need for smooth 4 ohm, but nevermind its not worth since frd and zma is not a real : )
An fine tune to impedance is need for smooth 4 ohm, but nevermind its not worth since frd and zma is not a real : )
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