I’m like majorly grossed out about this subject myself 😀.
My daughter in her early twenties will regularly “correct” my pronunciation for words I have used all my life.
I don’t think there is any going back however. The problem with language to some extent is that common usage is king. It no longer matters that my pronunciation or grammar is correct according to prior custom.
With the internet there is so much more exposure to outside influences especially American English.
Like the Borg, we will just have to assimilate.
However, one chink of light is that AI models generally have fairly good grammar and spelling, so the “disimprovent” might slow down. (Who came up with THAT word???!)
I don’t think many young people now can easily read and understand Shakespeare and understand the power of expression in his work.
A great shame.
My daughter in her early twenties will regularly “correct” my pronunciation for words I have used all my life.
I don’t think there is any going back however. The problem with language to some extent is that common usage is king. It no longer matters that my pronunciation or grammar is correct according to prior custom.
With the internet there is so much more exposure to outside influences especially American English.
Like the Borg, we will just have to assimilate.
However, one chink of light is that AI models generally have fairly good grammar and spelling, so the “disimprovent” might slow down. (Who came up with THAT word???!)
I don’t think many young people now can easily read and understand Shakespeare and understand the power of expression in his work.
A great shame.
McWhorter is not the final say on what is proper or not. He is just one opinion.
The point of saying "My friend and I" instead of "Me and my friend" is to not make you appear to be more important than your friend.
It's just like entering an elevator or opening the door for someone else. Or letting them go first at the dinner table.
Regardless of when it was introduced, it seems like the proper and appropriate thing to do.
So, like, yeah, totally - learn these young 'uns to talk propa!
I understand that language changes over time, and some contractions or misuse of words can sometimes have a certain charm, much like a local accent; but it's sad that most people don't appreciate a good turn of phrase, or a polished use of a wide vocabulary. How many of use here, enjoy listening to lyrics (or read books) because of the "poetic" use of language. 'nuff said!
I understand that language changes over time, and some contractions or misuse of words can sometimes have a certain charm, much like a local accent; but it's sad that most people don't appreciate a good turn of phrase, or a polished use of a wide vocabulary. How many of use here, enjoy listening to lyrics (or read books) because of the "poetic" use of language. 'nuff said!
From what I can tell, they aren't even required to read Shakespeare anymore in most high schools.
Part of the big "dumbing down" that is going on.
A great shame, indeed.
Because the phrase in question is the subject of the sentence and you don't use "me" as a subject.
By the way, the Dowland recordings of Elisabeth Hetherington and David Mackor are with the proper pronunciation of late 16th, early 17th century English. "Deprived" sounds very different and far more logical than in modern English.
Back in the 1970s when I went to HS, Shakespeare was just as incomprehensible to the English and American students in HS English classes I attended as it is today. The effort expended then means I largely understand it today. There are still words I would need to look up. Yes, Shakespeare is wonderful, and the first bard of the modern era. (His sensibilities are ones we all relate to, something not easily said of most literature that came before.)
Note I speak bad Shakespearean English whenever I feel the need to be annoying to the significant other. 🤣
Note I speak bad Shakespearean English whenever I feel the need to be annoying to the significant other. 🤣
Fair enough, so it is not just the word order that bothers you. I wonder what John McWhorter would say about it.
There are times when reading a book I will stop and reread a sentence not for the content, but just for the sheer beauty of how the author expressed the words.
I myself much prefer the placement of the viewpoint adverb at the beginning of the sentence, if it's personal.
Or: Fab, convo, appie, za, and many others. For: fabulous, conversation, appetizer, and pizza, respectively.
One of my pet peeves is "me, myself". I hear that quite a bit in interviews, "for me, myself, personally ... " How many times do you need to say that you're speaking for yourself, which I was assuming to begin with?
Tom
And one more bugger in written English, the use of 'to' versus 'too'.
use of to
use of too
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/commonly-confused-words/to-too/
eidt: let's wake up a few more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbing_down
use of to
- going to
- have to
- want to
- need to
use of too
- too late/early
- too fast/slow
- too hot/cold
- too little/much
- you/me/they/things.. etc too
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/commonly-confused-words/to-too/
eidt: let's wake up a few more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbing_down
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The " like" being added to everything is rather annoying.
Example
I like, grew up in like, California. Like, everyone saying like to like everything. Was like totally normal, I mean like whatever.
More often than not it was uneducated pot heads with nothing much to say.
Now it seems to be at the college levels. Spending hours arguing over biology with made up science.
Garbage habit. Cause like, being like a account manager. Or like any office professional, like nobody will like, buy from you or like even listen to you.
Cause your like annoying. Like for real.
Removing your 120k a year fantasy that capitalism makes you shoot for.
Cant even write this junk without grammar errors. Including incomplete or run on sentences.
I even find myself saying " like" to much myself. Being forced to listen to idiots saying like too much.
Being the same reason they say it to much.
Example
I like, grew up in like, California. Like, everyone saying like to like everything. Was like totally normal, I mean like whatever.
More often than not it was uneducated pot heads with nothing much to say.
Now it seems to be at the college levels. Spending hours arguing over biology with made up science.
Garbage habit. Cause like, being like a account manager. Or like any office professional, like nobody will like, buy from you or like even listen to you.
Cause your like annoying. Like for real.
Removing your 120k a year fantasy that capitalism makes you shoot for.
Cant even write this junk without grammar errors. Including incomplete or run on sentences.
I even find myself saying " like" to much myself. Being forced to listen to idiots saying like too much.
Being the same reason they say it to much.
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And I don't care who John McWhorter is, he is wrong.
If it would be proper to form a sentence such as "Me and my friend went to the store", then if you went by yourself you could simply say "Me went to the store."
Obviously, that is intolerable.
Case rested.
I sorted an analogue system for my youngest daughter and her family last year. She calls albums "vinyls", I find it most amusing, I'm glad she appreciates them.
She has a degree in English, just completed her Masters in Education...
Sorting out a system for the office at work. We're going to sort some "vinyls" out.
😎
I gave your post a like, because, you know, I liked it, and like, it was exactly what I liked to hear.