Hi there,
I recently bought the Lampucera DAC kit and I have to say it's blowing me away. Sounded really nice already with my Wiim pro (fed by a Topping P50 LPS) via Coax. Then I played a CD over an old Entry Level Onkyo CD Transport into the Lampucera and now I am selling the Wiim.. it's just another level, much more dynamic, better timing, more punch, more everything. I am now wondering how I can get a similar level of performance but as a streaming transport without spending crazy money. I heard good things about the Ifi Zen Stream, does anyone have experience with it? Also I am curious why the Onkyo sounds SO much better. Is it mainly because of the power supply? Or can anyone explain to me the reasons for this? Thank you in advance!
Regards,
Johannes
I recently bought the Lampucera DAC kit and I have to say it's blowing me away. Sounded really nice already with my Wiim pro (fed by a Topping P50 LPS) via Coax. Then I played a CD over an old Entry Level Onkyo CD Transport into the Lampucera and now I am selling the Wiim.. it's just another level, much more dynamic, better timing, more punch, more everything. I am now wondering how I can get a similar level of performance but as a streaming transport without spending crazy money. I heard good things about the Ifi Zen Stream, does anyone have experience with it? Also I am curious why the Onkyo sounds SO much better. Is it mainly because of the power supply? Or can anyone explain to me the reasons for this? Thank you in advance!
Regards,
Johannes
For a cheap streamer I use a Yamaha WXC-50 which didn't give much away to a Cambridge CXN. It has several inputs / outputs and can be used as a pre amp with volume control or source only. The MusicCast App works extremely smoothly and a joy to use and for my main use works well with a NAS via WiFi or Ethernet.
Are you playing equal data formats via streaming and CDP? The CDP should feed uncompressed 16 Bit at 44,1 kHz sampling rate. Streaming is often different from that.
I stream Apple Music via Chromecast and it's 44.1/16. Format isn't the problem, thank you for the idea though.
Well, this thread suggests that Apply Music cannot stream lossless to Chromecast https://www.hifivision.com/threads/apple-music-cast-via-chromecast.92789/#post-1033930 .
I am not interested in lossless streaming. It's not about the format, it's the Wiim that just does not sound good. I even played Flac and Wave files from my Nas and it didn't make a difference.
What does your audio network look like? Are you using a switch, or connecting your streamer directly to the router? The WiiM Pro is a lower tier streamer, there is certainly much better for more money, but even a high quality streamer/renderer benefits from network improvements. There are many, many things you can do to optimize your streaming system. How much are you willing to spend?
I wouldn't sell the WiiM as a first step. I suggest you improve what you have, because even if you eventually end up with a more upscale streamer, you will reap the benefit of the network improvements. The Zen Stream is a great product. So is the LAN iSilencer. I haven't heard the new LAN iPurifier Pro, but it looks like a great product. I am a huge EtherRegen fan.
A more immediate problem is that your P50 doesn't have enough power through its 5V ports to properly power the WiiM Pro.
From the WiiM site:
USB Type-C, requires 5V, 1.5A or higher. Bundled adapter: 5V, 2A
Topping P50 output power :
DC5V 1A X 2
DC15V 1A
DC5V 1A X1+DC15V 0.9A
DC5V 0.8A X2+DC15V 08A
As you can see, even if it is the only device connected, the P50 does not meet the 1.5A minimum current spec. Insufficient current will cause high frequency grit, loose bass and a constricted soundstage. I own a P50. Even though it is a linear power supply it is not a very good one. I prefer the iPower2, iPower X or something like this, all of which I also own:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325301504510?itmmeta=01J29DW9XJY4TCWT1HEMDBRRX6&hash=item4bbd7b09fe:g:~BUAAOSwIbNkQT~y&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA8LHMV4tny7k7G369k4zkoKjVw/UBvG3Pbc7KLwd0KIoWQ6+dP6k1LmVTEWDJu5HTOPwvPYmXWQ+MZsYqt1MvOWsFbSKCgk+KQ1qVKADs3bx3V2zHcJ6Uali9gHVB86/S9yLVWs6R4RdHvoEg3IzcD6Y+CjZbo3ref2YYAeY1KIK6dnVcUd9ilnFKFCncIaQn41UXwWtK0PkKqr5czsjZ2FTut95UA1kWzeaRnwHlAsjRmuBzwbIxVmzpIjwfs5kxd9hXfHTWyQel9uXOtYS6iagaHjJz7zyBY41prmen3XiCXIUmrOQQWDgKkkPWxeBh9Q==|tkp:Bk9SR_Ke8a2SZA
Thank you very much! This is helpful. Yes I already thought about network improvements but so far I have only bought a repeater to isolate the Streamer from my Router, which did do something but not a whole lot. From your experience, what is the most cost effective improvement of the network system?
Regarding the P50, I also thought it might be a little weak for the Wiim. Will soon try again with my Ipower2, it is rated at 5V 2A output. But I still think this won't do the trick for me, I got the IFI Zen Stream on its way (used for 230€). Will see how much of an improvement this makes and then look at the network.
Regarding the P50, I also thought it might be a little weak for the Wiim. Will soon try again with my Ipower2, it is rated at 5V 2A output. But I still think this won't do the trick for me, I got the IFI Zen Stream on its way (used for 230€). Will see how much of an improvement this makes and then look at the network.
I did try a 5V 3A SMPS and it still sounds dull and crappy over the Wiim. So I don't think the low amp output of the P50 was the issue. For now I will probably not spend a lot money on audiophile switches but I will keep the network on my to do list. Maybe I'll try the iSilencer as a budget option to improve network performance. Or is something like it included in the ZS? Does anyone have a priority list for which steps make the most difference regarding network audio performance?
Why would you want to buy a ready made streamer? Lots of diy recipes on the specialised forums and for next to no money a reasonably proficient diy-er can easily compete in the mid 4 figures on sound.
Plenty of specialised hardware such as TCXO driven MBs, ehernet and usb cards is also available, albeit at generally grossly exaggerated cost.
The most important decision before beginning is to choose an ideology: low power bit perfect vs high power upsampling, upconverting, etc.
Would you really prefer a manufacturer to be taking all the important decisions on your behalf?
As for exceeding the sound of an upmarket CDP using a streamer ... a highly controversial topic. But hey, these days we trade actual freedom for convenience, so what's a tiny drop in SQ? 🙂
Plenty of specialised hardware such as TCXO driven MBs, ehernet and usb cards is also available, albeit at generally grossly exaggerated cost.
The most important decision before beginning is to choose an ideology: low power bit perfect vs high power upsampling, upconverting, etc.
Would you really prefer a manufacturer to be taking all the important decisions on your behalf?
As for exceeding the sound of an upmarket CDP using a streamer ... a highly controversial topic. But hey, these days we trade actual freedom for convenience, so what's a tiny drop in SQ? 🙂
Are you aware the Zen Stream cannot play YouTube Music or Amazon Music? The WiiM Plus can, so you may want to keep it even though you have the Zen if you value either of those music platforms. I have four network audio systems. I don't sell stuff, I just hand it down to the next level system. 😀
Note that I was recommending the LAN iSilencer, not the iSilencer:
https://www.silentpower.tech/products/lan-isilencer
That is my first recommendation, no matter what else you do, it will still provide a benefit.
I don't have a strict priority list, but here are inexpensive things that improved my network:
Adding a switch. Even a consumer grade switch like Netgear, D-Link, etc.
Wired beats wi-fi. Fiber-optic beats both, but at higher cost and complexity
Upgraded power supplies on everything; router, switch, streamer, DAC
Ethernet cables matter, particularly for tonality, regardless of where they are used in the network. Even finding the most complementary sounding generic ethernet cable matters. Good inexpensive choices are Blue Jeans Cable CAT6a, Tera Grand CAT6 and CAT7, and Yauhody CAT8 (available at Amazon). My favourite of these is the Yauhody. Tera Grand has a more forward sound than the Yauhody, the BJC is darker. I have never tried a BJC CAT6, so I have no opinion on that one, but IME more shielding = better sound.
Tera Grand and Yauhody are shield-tied cable, so they are best used in conjunction with a LAN Isolator like the LAN iSilencer.
Note that I was recommending the LAN iSilencer, not the iSilencer:
https://www.silentpower.tech/products/lan-isilencer
That is my first recommendation, no matter what else you do, it will still provide a benefit.
I don't have a strict priority list, but here are inexpensive things that improved my network:
Adding a switch. Even a consumer grade switch like Netgear, D-Link, etc.
Wired beats wi-fi. Fiber-optic beats both, but at higher cost and complexity
Upgraded power supplies on everything; router, switch, streamer, DAC
Ethernet cables matter, particularly for tonality, regardless of where they are used in the network. Even finding the most complementary sounding generic ethernet cable matters. Good inexpensive choices are Blue Jeans Cable CAT6a, Tera Grand CAT6 and CAT7, and Yauhody CAT8 (available at Amazon). My favourite of these is the Yauhody. Tera Grand has a more forward sound than the Yauhody, the BJC is darker. I have never tried a BJC CAT6, so I have no opinion on that one, but IME more shielding = better sound.
Tera Grand and Yauhody are shield-tied cable, so they are best used in conjunction with a LAN Isolator like the LAN iSilencer.
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My network systems sound better than my CD transports, but at significantly higher cost.
Can you recommend such a project? I wasn't aware that it's possible to build a very good streaming transport myself. How am I gonna handle Chromecast integration? Spotify Connect?
Problem is that even the sound of a cheap old JVC DVD Player easily outperforms the Wiim by far when using coax into the DAC. Not a tiny drop... It wipes the floor with the Wiim.
Problem is that even the sound of a cheap old JVC DVD Player easily outperforms the Wiim by far when using coax into the DAC. Not a tiny drop... It wipes the floor with the Wiim.
@ Audiobomber: yes I am aware that I cannot stream music from YouTube and Amazon. As long as I can use Spotify and Apple Music I'm fine!
Yes, more parts in the network, some of which cost more individually than my CD transports (Oppo DV-980H and Pioneer DV563A multi-players, Pioneer BDR-XD05B USB 3.0 Blu-Ray Drive).
Avoid streamers that need an "app" like Chromecast via Google Home. Such designs are too complicated. Apparently, they are designed to save money on the user interface. It has nothing to do with sound quality. I prefer a desktop computer, USB DAC, and amplifier with headphone jack to experience Tidal streams. Quality varies. I think it is better to download files instead of streams.
Unfortunately I would like to be able to play music without having to go to my laptop and play a stream. So wireless is a must, therefore I need a streamer. Is the sound quality so much inferior compared to just a pc and then via usb into a dac?