I built some LS from concrete. The sound is amazing. Sounds like a 3D cut;-) The resolution of the colors is infinitely greater and nothing between the tones except clear nothingness or blackness - compared to wooden material;-) The comparison is like a photo and an oil painting with a fat brush, or even a small SE, like a well-built JLH, and a cool, rich, but also darkened, coarse, bumpy, somewhat dirty few steps complementary push-pull PP, such as a Hiraga Classe A.
Hi very interesting indeed thank you for the advice
Actually in the old days someone built speakers cabinets out of concrete
http://www.audioreview.com/product/speakers/bookshelf-speakers/rauna-of-sweden/tyr.html
They must be very heavy but as we said this is good
Weight could be an issue
But I would love to listen to a sub with a concrete cabinet
That must be really something to remember
Another interesting link
https://www.stereophile.com/content/rauna-balder-loudspeaker
Superb rendition of soundstage depth is my dream
When l hear sounds coming beyond the front wall I am in awe
Actually in the old days someone built speakers cabinets out of concrete
http://www.audioreview.com/product/speakers/bookshelf-speakers/rauna-of-sweden/tyr.html
They must be very heavy but as we said this is good
Weight could be an issue
But I would love to listen to a sub with a concrete cabinet
That must be really something to remember
Another interesting link
https://www.stereophile.com/content/rauna-balder-loudspeaker
Superb rendition of soundstage depth is my dream
When l hear sounds coming beyond the front wall I am in awe
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https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...loudspeakers-faradaysound.414020/post-7712520 🙂
Please note that the first Stereophile article you linked was from 1988, and that model of loudspeakers has not been available for years.
However it seems that they still have something in production.
My experience is that even if you achieve one of your goals (e.g. deep and wide soundstage) then with time and getting used to that sound you may start to desire something more or simply different.
Ultimately, that's the fun too of this great passion. 😉
Please note that the first Stereophile article you linked was from 1988, and that model of loudspeakers has not been available for years.
However it seems that they still have something in production.
My experience is that even if you achieve one of your goals (e.g. deep and wide soundstage) then with time and getting used to that sound you may start to desire something more or simply different.
Ultimately, that's the fun too of this great passion. 😉
Well, you can't go anywhere with concrete loudspeakers;-) And even small compacts are not light;-) And besides, you can have a fun-rumble-crash system that is also relatively mobile;-)
But I would advise anyone who is really serious about hi-fi, high-end or audio to get to grips with stone and concrete;-)
But I would advise anyone who is really serious about hi-fi, high-end or audio to get to grips with stone and concrete;-)
I would add that if they fall out of your hands they can even break themselves under their own weight. 😉
well only to a some degree I mean i heard depth and sounds coming from beyond the front wall but not the open window
first thing to do is to have the front wall treated acoustically We feel a wall if it reflects sounds
For instance a bat placed in an anechoic chamber will keep on crashing against the walls In a reverberant room it will get crazy
Home situations are often far from optimal The room is very important
I have got more the speakers disappearing No boxiness Expeciall with heavy ones after modding
Going back to the topic i would like to listen to a wideband driver with a just diode at its + input
In this way the driver will only push air and never pull I wonder how it would sound
first thing to do is to have the front wall treated acoustically We feel a wall if it reflects sounds
For instance a bat placed in an anechoic chamber will keep on crashing against the walls In a reverberant room it will get crazy
Home situations are often far from optimal The room is very important
I have got more the speakers disappearing No boxiness Expeciall with heavy ones after modding
Going back to the topic i would like to listen to a wideband driver with a just diode at its + input
In this way the driver will only push air and never pull I wonder how it would sound
Makes me wonder how someone would know that...a masters theses "Animal reactions within unnatural environments"?
You can do that with an op-amp circuit, to remove the diode's "0.7V" forward drop - but it'll sound like a guitar fuzz box.
I suppose the problem with your theory is that real sounds are comprised of both push and pull. Whack a kettle drum, the membrane goes down and pulls the air away from you. Stomp a kick drum - same, if you're the drummer. But out in front of the set, that big kick drum membrane pushes air toward you.
I once owned an entire book on the subject of push versus pull and its audibility, called "the wood effect". Its author wanted to convey the importance of "absolute polarity" in a recording and claimed that this was something which can be heard. You and others may have noticed a now old fashioned feature on some preamps called the polarity switch. As you never know which way is right; was claimed that it can go back and forth even track to track on the same album. The only way to know is to listen and decide for yourself which way is right; when push is push and pull is pull.
Fast forward 30 years and you dont see that feature so much. I guess with all digital production, auto-tuned baby voiced female hip hop stuff some people listen to whatever the absolute phase ever was, is long lost in the signal chain. Versus something like a "live" recording where this aspect stands a chance of being preserved.
If you dont have a preamp with this feature, it's easy to try - just flip the phase of your speaker wires, playing your favorite recording one way and then both reversed. See which way you like better. You may find for you, the effect is real.
It will be a far, far less in your face effect than sticking a diode in there.
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Hi thank you for the very interesting reply and I was partially wrong about how bats see
From the web
Their echolocation will not work
I am sure that even we humans have some kind of echolocation ability
In a similar way we will hear a wall when it reflects sounds coming from a source
I am pretty sure that soundstage will be phenomenal in an anechoic chamber
Of course the speakers response should be linearized
About phase I have seen a very telling video
We will hear out of phase sound when a channel is reversed to the other A nulling effect
I like when anything from the wall socket up is in phase
Also I believe in time alignment of drivers
It can be done quite easily
For listening in a small to medium room I would use a wideband driver from 200 Hz up above a bass box
Actually I have a crazy idea of using some decent sounding PC speakers drivers as satellite
Maybe the best crossover frequency should be higher like 300 Hz
Some testing is needed
From the web
So they should be in anechoic chamber in the dark to crash in the chamber walls
Their echolocation will not work
I am sure that even we humans have some kind of echolocation ability
In a similar way we will hear a wall when it reflects sounds coming from a source
I am pretty sure that soundstage will be phenomenal in an anechoic chamber
Of course the speakers response should be linearized
About phase I have seen a very telling video
We will hear out of phase sound when a channel is reversed to the other A nulling effect
I like when anything from the wall socket up is in phase
Also I believe in time alignment of drivers
It can be done quite easily
For listening in a small to medium room I would use a wideband driver from 200 Hz up above a bass box
Actually I have a crazy idea of using some decent sounding PC speakers drivers as satellite
Maybe the best crossover frequency should be higher like 300 Hz
Some testing is needed
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My experience is to test every seemingly nonsensical or unambiguous opportunity in practice, to experience it in practice, in AUDIO practice. So: diode in front of the speaker, whether it's multi-way or full-range. And also speakers with reversed polarity, and and and. And also: provoke "accidents". Because only differentiation and contrasting in all directions creates a more concrete world view, or audio view, audio image;-)
A random experience, for example: A long mains extension cable (ca. 3 m) was lying across the room from a socket in the room where I was listening to music. Without a device connected to it. A listener was also present. Because I wanted to keep things tidy, I pulled it out of the socket. And it suddenly sounded different, much better. We looked at each other in amazement. Then I plugged the cable back in and it sounded much worse. And then unplugged it again and it sounded better again;-) We need experiences like this, and we can provoke them by trying everything imaginable and unthinkable;-)
A random experience, for example: A long mains extension cable (ca. 3 m) was lying across the room from a socket in the room where I was listening to music. Without a device connected to it. A listener was also present. Because I wanted to keep things tidy, I pulled it out of the socket. And it suddenly sounded different, much better. We looked at each other in amazement. Then I plugged the cable back in and it sounded much worse. And then unplugged it again and it sounded better again;-) We need experiences like this, and we can provoke them by trying everything imaginable and unthinkable;-)
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Hi thank you very much indeed for the very valuable link Quite above my understand ability but nevertheless extremely fascinating
I am shocked by how complex is the model proposed for a moving coil driver Very interesting for sure
And i wonder about two things:
1) can all the values in the model can be measured for any specific driver ? is the model valid for any moving coil transducer ?
2) how well the mathematical model correlates with the driver real behaviour (the very issue in the end)
The idea of predicting a driver behaviour on the basis of some measurable parameters is very fascinating
From what i see on videos usually to design a crossover a driver frequency response is used along with TS parameters ?
This method in the paper looks much more scientific to me
Very very nice but also difficult for me
One problem with phase inversion in complex hi-fi practice can be that loudspeakers usually have passive crossover components. And it can be a difference whether these are on the signal or ground side. This can also be the reason for a changed sound. A phase switch on a preamplifier does not have this problem.
This statement of yours made me (finally) understand why some (all?) technicians/engineers/designers disapprove (I had written they "hate") this kind of things: because this kind of things totally escape any notion of the past and at the same time makes any real future progress more uncertain.
From my modest point of view how little we known it's still not enough either to refute your specific experience of the extension cord in the socket, nor to admit/prove it as not only possible, but also true.
See, I believe that what I said above applies to anyone, in the following sense: once you have even provoked and repeated it, what do you deduce from it that is acceptable on a practical (or even theoretical) level for everyone?
I believe very little, but it's certainly not your fault, because maybe if you try the same experience a hundred more times in a hundred different rooms and with a hundred different systems it doesn't happen.
This is why a few posts above I said that in my opinion it is also important at some point in one's journey to "unlearn" many of the things that will never be useful to you and put into practice your own projects/ideas.
Right or wrong they are.
Edit to add that I kust believe in your experience with the extension cord, is just that it - as it is - is not too "useful" (if you know what I mean).
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Well, it's more a lack of understanding of the complexity of "physics" and science;-)
And we should accept that hearing (audio) and viewing are different measuring methods that are often not calibrated to each other, and have completely different levels of complexity (audio: a 3 dimensional, contoured, coloured image including tact and tempo, viewing: a single line on a monitor).
I recommend as audio beginner tests e.g.:
Everything else comes later;-)
Anyone who refuses to do such tests is refusing to do science! And a common electrical engineering education is NOT a scientific education that includes, for example, method development or criticism - and certainly not tin audio! This is where the discourse fails: those with a low-complexity education in audio do not (want) even recognize that they have a low-complexity education in audio - let alone a scientific one. That's why they usually develop completely past the requirement: AUDIO;-)
And we should accept that hearing (audio) and viewing are different measuring methods that are often not calibrated to each other, and have completely different levels of complexity (audio: a 3 dimensional, contoured, coloured image including tact and tempo, viewing: a single line on a monitor).
I recommend as audio beginner tests e.g.:
- covering speaker cabinets with fabric, blankets,
- placing electrical devices on various materials,
- connecting channel-separated power supplies.
Everything else comes later;-)
Anyone who refuses to do such tests is refusing to do science! And a common electrical engineering education is NOT a scientific education that includes, for example, method development or criticism - and certainly not tin audio! This is where the discourse fails: those with a low-complexity education in audio do not (want) even recognize that they have a low-complexity education in audio - let alone a scientific one. That's why they usually develop completely past the requirement: AUDIO;-)
I understand and (partially) agree with what you say and I also reiterate that I believe it in your experience with the extension cord, but in this phase I'm currently willing to accept the fact that the two worlds described are irreconcilable, by design.
All the attempts to discuss this in hreads which will be systematically (and at this point rightly) closed are (small) proof of this.
I really thank you, not just to say, because now I have a broader vision.
In the sense that I now know that that kind of experience can (at the moment) only be personal and not shareable (in the sense that you can certainly share it, but it won't be useful).
I say it once again, I am among those who believe in an experience like yours and that I myself pay attention to "discover" when and if it is the case, so what?
I mean, you have your choice to believe what you want, I agree that the Audio also understands what you say, but I think we are still too ignorant about it, I think the Audio is divided more which united by those who make money from it and who talk ******** knowing they are talking ******** and who in many cases have an abysmal ignorance on the subject of Audio and/or Hearing.
Yet you always see them there pontificating.
There must be a reason, right? 😉
All the attempts to discuss this in hreads which will be systematically (and at this point rightly) closed are (small) proof of this.
I really thank you, not just to say, because now I have a broader vision.
In the sense that I now know that that kind of experience can (at the moment) only be personal and not shareable (in the sense that you can certainly share it, but it won't be useful).
I say it once again, I am among those who believe in an experience like yours and that I myself pay attention to "discover" when and if it is the case, so what?
I mean, you have your choice to believe what you want, I agree that the Audio also understands what you say, but I think we are still too ignorant about it, I think the Audio is divided more which united by those who make money from it and who talk ******** knowing they are talking ******** and who in many cases have an abysmal ignorance on the subject of Audio and/or Hearing.
Yet you always see them there pontificating.
There must be a reason, right? 😉
I know tests where everyone gives a clearly identical assessment. Well, not all, because we really do have people who simply can't hear change, like red-green blindness, or others who can't describe the experience, and also some who are ALWAYS against the majority and some other social, physical, emotional phenomena and types. Let's say 20 % of the participants hear nothing, and the other 80 % give an identical hearing assessment: A = black and B) = gray. Then we have an "objective" result. Whether half of these 80 % then like A) black more and 40 % B) gray more is a "subjective" assessment. This is interesting when it comes to adapting the equipment to taste;-)
With regard to make money: I can't offer a device weighing 3 kg, containing 2 x 10 components, for 100,000 $, even if the sonic potential is far greater than the 300 kg and 2 x 1,000 components device;-) The ordinary "rich" customer doesn't want that either;-)
With regard to make money: I can't offer a device weighing 3 kg, containing 2 x 10 components, for 100,000 $, even if the sonic potential is far greater than the 300 kg and 2 x 1,000 components device;-) The ordinary "rich" customer doesn't want that either;-)
I worked for DEC at "the mill" in the 80s. As such, some of the buildings were long, with long hallways. A decorator had made several prints of the outside facility - like the bell tower - in red, on burlap. These things may have been 6' x 4' and they were stuffed with sound absorbent material. They were placed at a regular spacing down the length of a particular long hallway.
Walking down that hall, it was easily observable to hear the wall disappear when you encountered one of these. Just ambient noise, footsteps. When no one was around, I used to close my eyes and try to navigate the hallway using those as markers.
At that time (late 1980s) one of the things I learned in the Audio conference DEC had internally, was you dont challenge someone else's experiences as "bullsheet". There's another one I read here; sonic differences between ethernet routers. Its...one of those let a sleeping dog lie things. If you want to stay out of trouble.
In that era of my life, I had band practice over at a friends newly built father's home. The space we played in wasnt finished and I couldnt help but notice all the metal conduit in the wall frames. (They were originally from England) Friend said his father insisted upon it, so, whole house done that way.
Now based on your extension cord observation, it is to wonder if this guys house "sounds better" than most anywhere else, because the AC mains is encased in a grounded Faraday cage? What could one do, besides build a house the ordinary American one way with the plastic coated wires directly through holes in the studs - and a second identical house built with the conduit? Or, if you're an audiophile that happens to be building a new construction home, just go for the conduit everywhere, based on open AC (RF?) fields floating about can change the sound. In my house, there's nothing practical I could do, unless there's a way to trap "whatever" coming into the home in the first place.
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