You can do way more precise crossovers with DSP. Delay drivers for lining up acoustic centers and perfect addition at the crossover point. More precise linearisation. And linearise phase when wanted.
While passive speakers are nice and easy to use and fine when you search for some "mojo" - you can up the game with DSP (at least when you have digital sources anyways).
That's a cool look and an interesting woofer mounting solution.
Watch out with an up-facing woofer with a phase plug. Anything that lands on the diaphragm will be directed down down towards the phase plug and into the VC gap...
Watch out with an up-facing woofer with a phase plug. Anything that lands on the diaphragm will be directed down down towards the phase plug and into the VC gap...
I also looked at that option, but couldn't find cheap veneer in my area. Also, if the radius is big enough, like with a 10 inch woofer, 3mm is the best way i think.
If i would redo the speakers, i would also go for veneer layers and using a large mould for the bending/layup.
A tip: Use more than 3 cross braces/horizontal braces to get a good shape. i only used 3 and needed to use brute force to get my flat sides straight-ish.
I already got some dust in the gap. That's why it has a top cover (didn't think of this reason when designing, but it counts) 😉 🤣
I have always admired the flexibility of DSP, but its prize is compared to passive is massive (not that its a problem with this build).
Build Update
I finished the second speaker. It reminded of how much i hate finishing. Also, the finish is ugly when looking at it up close. It has a lot of defects, like splintered edges, cracks and bumps. I've grown a lot of respect for those who can build perfectly veneered and finished cabinets.
Discussion
I see that there are two camps on the discussion about crossover so far: passive crossover and DSP.
What about using a passive crossover to get into the ballpark of a flat response and adjust the frequency response using DSP?
This way it eliminates the need of expensive 6 channel DAC/DSP and 6 amps.
I finished the second speaker. It reminded of how much i hate finishing. Also, the finish is ugly when looking at it up close. It has a lot of defects, like splintered edges, cracks and bumps. I've grown a lot of respect for those who can build perfectly veneered and finished cabinets.
Discussion
I see that there are two camps on the discussion about crossover so far: passive crossover and DSP.
What about using a passive crossover to get into the ballpark of a flat response and adjust the frequency response using DSP?
This way it eliminates the need of expensive 6 channel DAC/DSP and 6 amps.
This will also work, but it will be a lot of hassle to get good division on the passive crossover. If you don't have experience designing passive crossovers, this will all take a very long time. Making a good passive crossover for a three-way speaker is quite a difficult task. Just as I understand, in your case it is desirable to be able to correct the acoustic centers of the speakers. So think for yourself, in a sense, you can start with a passive crossover, and if it does not give the desired result, then you can already think about an active crossover.
Did you finish the crossover yet? If so, How does it sound with the upward facing woofer? Does the bass mesh well with the mid and highs?
Also, did you use regular 3mm ply, or Italian Bending Poplar?
Also, did you use regular 3mm ply, or Italian Bending Poplar?
I haven't started yet. some parts for measurements will be delivered this week.
I used regular 3mm, triple ply. i bend it against the grain of the two outside layers. to be specific: the outside grain will be vertical, parallel to axis of bending.
Update
i have finished the speakers (so far as i can enjoy them). the foremost struggle was the blending of the bass and mid.
The foremost problem is when listening outside of the sweet spot, AKA not in front of the speaker. When the bass is allowed to play above 150 ish hertz, the bass stays at the same ish level while the mid and highs start falling off. this makes the music really boomy.
i solved it by crossing over from the bass to the mid at 130 Hetz with a 2nd order filter. It makes the top woofer more like a subwoofer than a woofer.
also, i have some trouble where the mid and high have a big dip of 10 dB at 3 a 4 kHz. any ideas where this comes from?
the graph below are the raw measurements, yellow is tweeter, green is mid. (IR window of the impulse at 8.2 ms for eliminating reflections.)
i have finished the speakers (so far as i can enjoy them). the foremost struggle was the blending of the bass and mid.
I made some directionality measurements and listened to the bass and mid by using a 2 channel amp with APO equalizer as the filter.
The foremost problem is when listening outside of the sweet spot, AKA not in front of the speaker. When the bass is allowed to play above 150 ish hertz, the bass stays at the same ish level while the mid and highs start falling off. this makes the music really boomy.
i solved it by crossing over from the bass to the mid at 130 Hetz with a 2nd order filter. It makes the top woofer more like a subwoofer than a woofer.
also, i have some trouble where the mid and high have a big dip of 10 dB at 3 a 4 kHz. any ideas where this comes from?
the graph below are the raw measurements, yellow is tweeter, green is mid. (IR window of the impulse at 8.2 ms for eliminating reflections.)
What is your crossover point? And, are you running your mid and tweeting both the same polarity? Flipping the polarity of the tweeter might help.
Ah. Sorry, misunderstood.
How are you measuring the raw drivers. Outside? Inside in your listening room? Mic distance?
How are you measuring the raw drivers. Outside? Inside in your listening room? Mic distance?
the following setup was used:
- Outside mounted in the final box;
- Height of mic is 185 cm;
- Height of tweeter is 185cm;
- Distance between is 83 cm;
- Using IMM-6 mini mic and REW.
- amp: Fosi V3
- DAC: SMSL sanskrit II
Speaker grill on during measurement? Could be a dip from that
Different drivers and grills, but Troels measured a similar dip on some grill testing.
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/SBA-front-grill.htm
Different drivers and grills, but Troels measured a similar dip on some grill testing.
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/SBA-front-grill.htm
yes the were on. seems like i have to look into improving those. i didn't know that the grill could have such a large effect.
Wow those are gorgeous, nice work. May I ask why they are small in the front and larger in the back? It looks amazing but I am curious if there are any performance advantages to this design you chose. Thanks!
I don't know if there are any advantages, except for looking good and giving valuable experience while building (AKA being hard to build).
does someone know what the effects are? maybe i will try to simulate the baffle effect in VituixCAD.
Most likely a sharp baffle edge with centrally/symmetric mounted drivers.
Have a look at the diffraction influence as simulated with "edge", baffle width 16 cm:
