hi
i am looking for CHEAP and powerful amps.
most seem to be WAY more expensive than car audio amps. i need the amp to handle 1-2 ohm impedance and built in hp filter would be absolutely great since i will run subs on it.
i can get a 12v fullrange mono amp for 290 euros with 3000wrms in 2 ohm impedance, for example. can you match this with a 230v amp?
i am looking for CHEAP and powerful amps.
most seem to be WAY more expensive than car audio amps. i need the amp to handle 1-2 ohm impedance and built in hp filter would be absolutely great since i will run subs on it.
i can get a 12v fullrange mono amp for 290 euros with 3000wrms in 2 ohm impedance, for example. can you match this with a 230v amp?
Looking at this simplistically and using amps = watts/volts:
You'd need a 12 V power supply with a current capability of 250 A to achieve 3,000 W. That is achievable by using a car battery.
In comparison, A 230 V (AC) supply can deliver a maximum of 13 A from the (UK) domestic ring main. That is transformed in the amp's power supply to a lower (DC) voltage at a higher current capability, but not as high as 250 A methinks. That power supply circuitry alone makes the mains amp more expensive than the car amp.
Perhaps you are simply looking for a 230 V amplifier recommendation?
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Sorry. I did a fair amount of editing above, so I hope you've read the final version of my ramblings!
i am using car batteries with 1000wrms amp today but i will upgrade it. but i have the option of going with 230v amps since i already have a generator laying around
a 3000wrms 12v amp is not drawing 3000wrms, correct. let's say it has 6000 peak, -9db crest factor means it is averaging way under 3000w, or 250 amps.
with a -9db crest factor, a 3000wrms amp should in theory be doing 750wrms
i am doing a portable PA rig for outdoor use
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That's correct. I was looking at it simplistically by using maximum figures. The amp will not be capable of outputting 3 kW continuously.
Nor should your ears require it to! I can just imagine you sealed inside a car with the windows about to pop out! 😱
However, it seems your requirement is in house use.
Why do you need so much power? EDIT: I just saw your edit about portable PA rig for outside use!
P.S. "Cheap" will not be possible because of the requirement for the hefty, expensive DC power supply built into a 230 V amp.
P.P.S. What's your definition of "cheap"?
P.S. "Cheap" will not be possible because of the requirement for the hefty, expensive DC power supply built into a 230 V amp.
P.P.S. What's your definition of "cheap"?
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yes, this is what i am going for:
my definition of cheap is 290 euros for 3000wrms, this one or something similar: https://www.jjaudio.se/slutsteg/monoblock/spaudio-sp-30001d-2-ohm.html
i got my 4*250rms for like 160 euros
my definition of cheap is 290 euros for 3000wrms, this one or something similar: https://www.jjaudio.se/slutsteg/monoblock/spaudio-sp-30001d-2-ohm.html
i got my 4*250rms for like 160 euros
A quick Google shows Behringer NX3000 < £300.
How cheap can you go?
Maybe amps are only expensive in Sweden.
How cheap can you go?
Maybe amps are only expensive in Sweden.
I don't know why I was banging on about a hefty power supply when Class D and switch mode power supply is where we are at.
You're not going to get 3000 W RMS on your budget.
To suit your budget, there's this two channel, 2 x 1500 W into 2 ohm amplifier (£279), but that's maximum power and not RMS.
https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Behringer-NX3000-Power-Amplifier/2G7T?origin=product-ads&msclkid=f2f90705f24f1c5076e661683c03552d&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA Brand D1 | Smart&utm_term=4584482479276189&utm_content=Brand D1
EDIT: Overlapped with russc!
that seems decent. but it does not have rca input, and it does not have adjustable hp filter, and it is still only half the power of what i can get in a slightly cheaper car amp. hmmm
maybe i have to stick to a battery setup instead of switching to generator
maybe i have to stick to a battery setup instead of switching to generator
its the same price in sweden for that one. but still it's 3000w max, so it's half the power of the car amp i linked and is still slightly more expensive, and lacks hp filter at the same time
Forgive me for being blunt, but proper amplifiers do not use RCA for inputs or binding posts for outputs.
Anything remotely half-serious at "proper" wattage will be using balanced inputs and Speakon outputs.
Not saying the NX3000 is a prime example of a good product, more like a baseline.
I worked for Jands Electronics; we used to design and make PA amplifiers in Sydney Australia. The highest power mains (240V AC) powered amp in production used to be 2 x 2KW. This was a "diode/capacitor voltage doubler" solid-state amplifier; in other words, it could deliver 2 x 2000W peak output.
They (Jands) still sell high-powered amps, but they are based on class D designs. I do not know anything more than that (the source of class D amp modules and/or place of manufacture).
I think your best bet would be to get a well-known class D amp modules, and then consider running them in bridged mode.... That should get you around 2 x 2KW nominal power output. That will be quite potent/loud.
They (Jands) still sell high-powered amps, but they are based on class D designs. I do not know anything more than that (the source of class D amp modules and/or place of manufacture).
I think your best bet would be to get a well-known class D amp modules, and then consider running them in bridged mode.... That should get you around 2 x 2KW nominal power output. That will be quite potent/loud.
i will take a look at my local marketplace and see if i can find anything used.
now, what more do i need than an amp to start a PA setup? i also need like filters...
if i go 230v amp for subs, i might as well go 230v for my tops as well. but as of right now, i have no crossovers, i run tweeters on one channel and my mids on the other channel. so i will need a 2 channel amp for these as well
now, what more do i need than an amp to start a PA setup? i also need like filters...
if i go 230v amp for subs, i might as well go 230v for my tops as well. but as of right now, i have no crossovers, i run tweeters on one channel and my mids on the other channel. so i will need a 2 channel amp for these as well
The common thing to do these days is an active setup, so the signal chain will usually be something like:
Sound card - filters and EQ using DSP - Amplifiers (separate for bass, tops or mid and treble) - Speakers (bass, tops or mid and high)
Doing filters using passive components can be expensive, and they can soak up a lot of power especially if they are for lower frequencies. Active filters help reduce losses and make sure that you get the most of the power from the amplifiers into actual sound.
If you decide to go the route of an array (ref your other thread), DSP processing is very recommended to help deal with combing effects etc.
My personal preference for a sound system like this would be to make a pair of decent tops using some half decent 10" or 12" with some compact compression drivers in horns, passive crossover mostly to help reduce some potential for noise in the top end. Using a simple 2 way stereo DSP to deal with xo integration and adjustments for the bass solution. You need an amplifier for the tops and one or more amplifier for the bass (pending on what you end up with).
As a beginner, it is much easier to get into it properly making a relatively basic setup like this, and can be a really rewarding experience to help you evolve into a proper fanatic in no time.
Please consider getting a microphone to do some measurements, will definitely be a big help in setting things up properly.
There are analog boxes for 2way up to 4way filters available, they can be quite cheap and easy to use if you absolutely refuse to look at DSP.
Sound card - filters and EQ using DSP - Amplifiers (separate for bass, tops or mid and treble) - Speakers (bass, tops or mid and high)
Doing filters using passive components can be expensive, and they can soak up a lot of power especially if they are for lower frequencies. Active filters help reduce losses and make sure that you get the most of the power from the amplifiers into actual sound.
If you decide to go the route of an array (ref your other thread), DSP processing is very recommended to help deal with combing effects etc.
My personal preference for a sound system like this would be to make a pair of decent tops using some half decent 10" or 12" with some compact compression drivers in horns, passive crossover mostly to help reduce some potential for noise in the top end. Using a simple 2 way stereo DSP to deal with xo integration and adjustments for the bass solution. You need an amplifier for the tops and one or more amplifier for the bass (pending on what you end up with).
As a beginner, it is much easier to get into it properly making a relatively basic setup like this, and can be a really rewarding experience to help you evolve into a proper fanatic in no time.
Please consider getting a microphone to do some measurements, will definitely be a big help in setting things up properly.
There are analog boxes for 2way up to 4way filters available, they can be quite cheap and easy to use if you absolutely refuse to look at DSP.
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kaffimann,
i will sell my existing 12v 1000.4 amp, along with my 230ah battery bank. the batteries will not be able to keep up with the output
my problem now is that i dont know what tops to use anymore 😀 i need some advice...
the stuff i already have for my existing tops is this:
2x spaudio tw-35s tweeters: https://www.spaudio.it/products/sptw-35s-150-watt-rms
1x Monacor SPA-112 PA: https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/speaker-monacor-spa-112pa-8-ohm-12-28-inch.html
1x Monacor SP-12A/302PA: https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/speaker-monacor-sp-12a-302pa-8-ohm-12-32-inch.html
i dont know if i should stick with this and add 2*12" and another set of tweeters - another option would be like 32*6.5"
i found these which are about 10 euros each if i buy them in bulk! https://www.brl.se/sv/artiklar/madpm164.html
i cannot find much information about them - no response curve so i cannot tell you much about them other than that they are used in car audio and some people seem to think they are a lot bang for buck
can you recommend a cheap DSP? i found this one which is cheap: https://www.thomann.de/se/behringer_cx2310_v2.htm
well, i realized this got a bit messy now. but as you know i am building 4*15" tapped horns for my subwoofers. so i need something to pick up at 250hz or so. hunting for SPL
OFF TOPIC, btw, i am not a complete beginner even though it sounds like it lol even though i have never done PA like this. i have been building a 5kw car audio setup with 8x midrange, 4x tweeter and 2x subs in bandpass box. also i built a pair of TBTL-W6 hifi speakers:
i will sell my existing 12v 1000.4 amp, along with my 230ah battery bank. the batteries will not be able to keep up with the output
my problem now is that i dont know what tops to use anymore 😀 i need some advice...
the stuff i already have for my existing tops is this:
2x spaudio tw-35s tweeters: https://www.spaudio.it/products/sptw-35s-150-watt-rms
1x Monacor SPA-112 PA: https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/speaker-monacor-spa-112pa-8-ohm-12-28-inch.html
1x Monacor SP-12A/302PA: https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/speaker-monacor-sp-12a-302pa-8-ohm-12-32-inch.html
i dont know if i should stick with this and add 2*12" and another set of tweeters - another option would be like 32*6.5"
i found these which are about 10 euros each if i buy them in bulk! https://www.brl.se/sv/artiklar/madpm164.html
i cannot find much information about them - no response curve so i cannot tell you much about them other than that they are used in car audio and some people seem to think they are a lot bang for buck
can you recommend a cheap DSP? i found this one which is cheap: https://www.thomann.de/se/behringer_cx2310_v2.htm
well, i realized this got a bit messy now. but as you know i am building 4*15" tapped horns for my subwoofers. so i need something to pick up at 250hz or so. hunting for SPL
OFF TOPIC, btw, i am not a complete beginner even though it sounds like it lol even though i have never done PA like this. i have been building a 5kw car audio setup with 8x midrange, 4x tweeter and 2x subs in bandpass box. also i built a pair of TBTL-W6 hifi speakers:
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That is not a DSP unit, it is purely analogue xo, not bad in itself it is only that just about any sort of DSP adds a lot more value than simple filters.
I did not think you were a complete beginner, it can be a journey to delve into PA standards and DSP. Having made a comparable transition myself, I would like you to know that any kind of cheap measurement microphone and a half decent DSP setup will help you increase understanding and be a much more flexible solution.
And also: balanced signal interconnects and speakon exists for a reason, it may even end up costing less money.
Edit:
Some of the units you list are a bit pricey compared to what I would consider. What sort of amps are you looking at locally?
Do you have any sort of budget for amplifiers and filters?
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my budget is... as cheap and loud as possible
what cheap DSP would you recommend? ideally if it can be stacked together with my amps
actually, i have been thinking about buying a mic because i would like to measure my hifi setup as well
i feel like the Monacor SP-12A/302PA are a bit pricy for only 300rms, but what the heck, i could get 2 more of these if they are worth the money. but then i end up with an odd spa-112pa at 200rms which will limit me
locally, i have found a used soundtown Nix 5000IB amp. this one packs a punch and is like 100 euros, i could run my subs with this one. but i can barely find anything about it online, and it is sold by walmart, feels a bit sketchy but maybe it's worth the money for that amount of power?
most of the stuff i find locally is pro stuff and very expensive
i found a DSP though: DBX Driverack 260, used for 350 euros
what cheap DSP would you recommend? ideally if it can be stacked together with my amps
actually, i have been thinking about buying a mic because i would like to measure my hifi setup as well
i feel like the Monacor SP-12A/302PA are a bit pricy for only 300rms, but what the heck, i could get 2 more of these if they are worth the money. but then i end up with an odd spa-112pa at 200rms which will limit me
locally, i have found a used soundtown Nix 5000IB amp. this one packs a punch and is like 100 euros, i could run my subs with this one. but i can barely find anything about it online, and it is sold by walmart, feels a bit sketchy but maybe it's worth the money for that amount of power?
most of the stuff i find locally is pro stuff and very expensive
i found a DSP though: DBX Driverack 260, used for 350 euros