Hi Folks. I bought Philips CD-460 off German ebay. Reason is, I had 30 years ago (Czechoslovak) Tesla MC-911 (License Philips) which by the looks was Philips CD-460. Difference is that Tesla MC-911 used TDA1543, whereas CD-460 uses TDA1541, as did Tesla MC-902 btw..
So after power on nothing happened.. After cca 5 attempts suddenly display lit, and showed Err. Could not open door, was loud..
I cleaned everything, put some PTFE grease on plastic parts. Now it is mechanically perfect, very quiet.
I recapped all blue axial Vishay capacitors on decoder board. I recapped big Philips 6800uF/16 which was totally dead. I replaced one blue axial on CDM board with Nichicon 47u. (Original was 33u)
Service mode without disc shows 0 and lens are moving up and down, I can see red laser light.. With a disc, service mode advances automatically to 1, manually can go to 2,3 with buttons. Spindle rotates.
Voltages on connector 42 to servo were (IIRC) +12, +5.3, 0, -6.1, -13.4V
Still can not read CDs, display shows Err. That's how far I am now. Any Ideas?
So after power on nothing happened.. After cca 5 attempts suddenly display lit, and showed Err. Could not open door, was loud..
I cleaned everything, put some PTFE grease on plastic parts. Now it is mechanically perfect, very quiet.
I recapped all blue axial Vishay capacitors on decoder board. I recapped big Philips 6800uF/16 which was totally dead. I replaced one blue axial on CDM board with Nichicon 47u. (Original was 33u)
Service mode without disc shows 0 and lens are moving up and down, I can see red laser light.. With a disc, service mode advances automatically to 1, manually can go to 2,3 with buttons. Spindle rotates.
Voltages on connector 42 to servo were (IIRC) +12, +5.3, 0, -6.1, -13.4V
Still can not read CDs, display shows Err. That's how far I am now. Any Ideas?
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Thank you.That's where I was hoping to get more info here from someone. Do I need special test CD? Is 10MHz one channel analog scope OK? Can I measure it inside player? I am troubleshooting my first player. I am going to study SM now.
According to internet any factory pressed cd should give you some basic understanding of the laser capabilities - i.e. do not use burnt cd-roms.
Regarding scope bandwidth - what does the SM say about us per division?
Yes, you should be able to measure it inside the player provided you can access the test point with scope probe.
Regarding scope bandwidth - what does the SM say about us per division?
Yes, you should be able to measure it inside the player provided you can access the test point with scope probe.
This is max I can see with my "scope" on test point 65 (pin 25 of SAA7210P if I am correct).
I played further with service mode. In modes 0-2 the arm swings fully when pressing >> or <<. In mode 3 it looks like it is "playing" and arm swings only by 64 tracks (very little) when using forward/rewind buttons shortly.
Does it mean it can focus on CD?
I am going to look out for a real dual channel scope as I can make no progress anymore.
What is the amplitude of the signal?
And how does it behave now when you insert a CD (and what do you see on the scope during these seconds when it starts to read TOC).?
I am currently testing an older player that reads some burnt cd-roms and does not read others. So far I have noticed that when signal amplitude is 1,2V and more (on scope) then the disk TOC gets read. If it is below 1,2V (e.g. 1,1V) then I get No Disk form the player. Signal image is similar in both cases so it seems to have to do with the later signal processing logic in the controller chip.
Factory CD gives 1,4V, service manual sets 1,7V as target.
And how does it behave now when you insert a CD (and what do you see on the scope during these seconds when it starts to read TOC).?
I am currently testing an older player that reads some burnt cd-roms and does not read others. So far I have noticed that when signal amplitude is 1,2V and more (on scope) then the disk TOC gets read. If it is below 1,2V (e.g. 1,1V) then I get No Disk form the player. Signal image is similar in both cases so it seems to have to do with the later signal processing logic in the controller chip.
Factory CD gives 1,4V, service manual sets 1,7V as target.
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Probably dumb question. Which one is controller chip? Did cleaning the lens every really help? I might try that.
In the current posting context it is the chip which makes a decision about the received signal (from laser unit) to "exist" or "be missing/ignored".
I am not that competent with the internals of these chips to tell you exactly where that decision is made.
Sometimes it seems to help, sometimes it makes no difference in the result. Probably depends on how dirty the lens initially is.
I attached monitor to audio out (finally). Started CD in service mode and to my pleasure after switching to mode 3 I could IMMEDIATELY hear sound. Actually it started to play from cca 2m of the disc, well into first song. That corresponds with my observations of RF Eye pattern. It was always immediate.
Similar to this player:
https://www.bramjacobse.nl/wordpress/?p=12959
But I can not find any obvious reason. I lubricated the swing arm bearings and cleaned optics a bit when I was already inspecting insides. Made no change.
So good news is I know the CD player can play CDs from 2min onwards. Bad news is I can not make it read TOC.
Similar to this player:
https://www.bramjacobse.nl/wordpress/?p=12959
But I can not find any obvious reason. I lubricated the swing arm bearings and cleaned optics a bit when I was already inspecting insides. Made no change.
So good news is I know the CD player can play CDs from 2min onwards. Bad news is I can not make it read TOC.
maybe under the follow threads you will find additional helpful hints:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ayers-that-use-cdm-2-cdm-4-transports.372412/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/philips-cdm-2-laser-diode.281534/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/philips-cdm-2-10-laser-tuning.215817/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/philips-cd-450-cdm2-10-issues.294016/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/cdm2-10-behaving-badly.40456/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/cdm-2-29-problem-help.112039/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ayers-that-use-cdm-2-cdm-4-transports.372412/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/philips-cdm-2-laser-diode.281534/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/philips-cdm-2-10-laser-tuning.215817/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/philips-cd-450-cdm2-10-issues.294016/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/cdm2-10-behaving-badly.40456/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/cdm-2-29-problem-help.112039/
startup video
I made no progress so far. In Mode 1/2/3 pressing << or >> bounces the laser to the each end correspondingly.
Startup video shows, that immediately after startup laser begins to move towards outer side of the disc. I would expect it to stay there in center at least few moments.
I bought another CD-460 from Germany, but must a week or so wait till it arrives. Then I will observe another machine and compare. Meanwhile I got spare CDM2/10 laser drive (no servo pcb unfortunately), but that will have to wait.
I made no progress so far. In Mode 1/2/3 pressing << or >> bounces the laser to the each end correspondingly.
Startup video shows, that immediately after startup laser begins to move towards outer side of the disc. I would expect it to stay there in center at least few moments.
I bought another CD-460 from Germany, but must a week or so wait till it arrives. Then I will observe another machine and compare. Meanwhile I got spare CDM2/10 laser drive (no servo pcb unfortunately), but that will have to wait.
Partial success here.
Another CD-460 arrived. Seller described it as not needed anymore with some el-caps replaced. Somebody was there already. Some el-caps were indeed replaced. But it was dead 🙂 I measured voltages, which were OK, replaced main el-cap 6800uF, but still it was dead. No sign of life altogether. So I replaced axial el-cap on CDM2/10 and tried this unit inside the first CD-460. It freaking works 🙂
So out of two dead CD-460 there is one working in the end 0/2 -> 1/2.
There must be something with the first CDM2/10 that collides with reading TOC at the very beginning of the disk.
The other CD-460 has sligthly different mainboard, microcontroller is on a separate stack-on board. Maybe I will try troubleshoot it, but I suspect the main micro is dead and that would be it.
Another CD-460 arrived. Seller described it as not needed anymore with some el-caps replaced. Somebody was there already. Some el-caps were indeed replaced. But it was dead 🙂 I measured voltages, which were OK, replaced main el-cap 6800uF, but still it was dead. No sign of life altogether. So I replaced axial el-cap on CDM2/10 and tried this unit inside the first CD-460. It freaking works 🙂
So out of two dead CD-460 there is one working in the end 0/2 -> 1/2.
There must be something with the first CDM2/10 that collides with reading TOC at the very beginning of the disk.
The other CD-460 has sligthly different mainboard, microcontroller is on a separate stack-on board. Maybe I will try troubleshoot it, but I suspect the main micro is dead and that would be it.