Hi everyone
I just thought I would start a thread to be sure to keep my thread-titel! More will follow. The long story of my Le Grand MEH Danois starts in post #5.
I did share some ideas about my MEH´s here, the short version:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/synergy-horn-questions.407369/post-7559570
Happy new year to everyone.
Steffen
I just thought I would start a thread to be sure to keep my thread-titel! More will follow. The long story of my Le Grand MEH Danois starts in post #5.
I did share some ideas about my MEH´s here, the short version:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/synergy-horn-questions.407369/post-7559570
Happy new year to everyone.
Steffen
Last edited:
If the idea was to have a masculine french name, the "e" in "Grande" should be deleted. If feminine was prefered, should be "La" and "Danoise". Right now, the name gender stands in "others" category, which is perfectly fine with me.
Hi Steffan, your secondary flares look fantastic !
May I suggest you replace the link to your post in the synergy question threads, with the actual post. I think it will draw more response here.
Very cool how you were able to resolve the trig to be able to confidently make the secondaries first.
I like your choice of 80x60 too. That's the only pattern below 90 H, that i still mull about sometimes.
What are you figuring the depth will be? And weight?
You're going to have some awesome low freq pattern control !
May I suggest you replace the link to your post in the synergy question threads, with the actual post. I think it will draw more response here.
Very cool how you were able to resolve the trig to be able to confidently make the secondaries first.
I like your choice of 80x60 too. That's the only pattern below 90 H, that i still mull about sometimes.
What are you figuring the depth will be? And weight?
You're going to have some awesome low freq pattern control !
Hi Mark
I will take some time to write a little story with pictures about my thoughts and plans. I guess I will reuse some of the linked threat. It was actually just a good opportunity to tell the diyAudio-world what I am working with. That I do make sawdust! As I have understood I as OP can keep on editing post #1.
I went down in my shop and roughly measured that the horn will be 61,8 cm or 24,33" from throat to mouth.
Freq pattern control, according to HornCalc, will be down to maybe 195 Hz horizontal and maybe 330 Hz vertically. Due to the 60 degrees vertical dispersion no reflections from floor or ceiling will hit me above 330 Hz, hopefully!
More to come 😀
Steffen
I will take some time to write a little story with pictures about my thoughts and plans. I guess I will reuse some of the linked threat. It was actually just a good opportunity to tell the diyAudio-world what I am working with. That I do make sawdust! As I have understood I as OP can keep on editing post #1.
I went down in my shop and roughly measured that the horn will be 61,8 cm or 24,33" from throat to mouth.
Freq pattern control, according to HornCalc, will be down to maybe 195 Hz horizontal and maybe 330 Hz vertically. Due to the 60 degrees vertical dispersion no reflections from floor or ceiling will hit me above 330 Hz, hopefully!
More to come 😀
Steffen
Part 1
Ladies and gentleman, may I proudly present: Le Grand MEH Danois
It is a wordplay on a very big speaker and this very big danish dog, the grand danois/great dane and me living in Denmark.
This is a picture of a smaller prototype without portholes to show how it´s gonna look:
I started out in HiFi/Audio in the mid 80´s with some fullrange-drivers (Coral Beta 6) in a quarter-wavelength horn that I had bought from a friend. Then I got “audiophile”, and thought I needed something more modern, and entered multiway loudspeakers! First I build some Celetion SL6. Then I build a pair of two-way-speakers with a friend of late Steen Duelund, using his syncron-filter ideas. Well it got pretty good and impressing in many ways, BUT.... Things kind of fell back in place, when I build some kitchen-loudspeakes with some old Coral Flat 5 fullrange-drivers! I attribute that to a much smother timedomain-behavior, almost minimum phase response due to the absence of crossover-filters! In the late 90´s I got some Visaton B200 fullrange-drivers and enjoyed them for many years. BUT.....you can not get loud and bass and trebble are compromised....
My very first entry/search on the internet back in 1996 was: “Hornloudspeaker”. I found the homepage by Thomas Dunker, the co-author of the big book: High Quality Horn Loudspeaker Systems. Gorgeous homepage with lots of pictures and articles, sadly it got lost. But the horn-bug had got me! I had learned about Berd Doppenbergs ORIS-horns so I started to think about horns. I joined the joe-net and learned about the Triode Festivals in Denmark. I heard a three-way hornspeaker by Peter Bahnsen, a cornerhorn looking a bit like an UFO. That was amazing, so clear and dynamic! Only 1. order filters used. Now I was on a quest to try and find knowledge about horns, and ended up here on DiyAudio, hence my username here: hornsteff.
Eventually in 2010 I abandoned the whole idea of getting a fullrange horn-system, as I reasoned that my livingroom was way too small. I figured I couldn´t get enough listening-distance to the horns in a multi-way system due to the big c-c distances, and that I would be forced to listen with my head in a vice! I even had plans to build a sub-horn using part of my first floor (I was a single back then)! Things had kind of gotten too esoteric and extreem!
Some years later I took up “recreational reading” on diyAudio, you can´t get rid of that bug! And some glorious day I discovered the Unity/Synergy/MEH! A solution to all my troubles, and started to try to understand that concept. What I failed to understand was, why people always build small Unity/Synergy/MEH-speakers? I was beginning to fantasize about a big fullrange-MEH to be a “perfect” replacement for my limited fullrange-drivers. And then one day I discovered Chris´s K402 MEH, and the lights got turned on! That was a gamechanger! Then Mark started writing about his SYN-experiments and I knew that a big MEH was my way to go.
I studied everything I could find, that Tom Danley has written here in the forum and elsewhere. I did in particular notice, that he had placed a pair of SH 50´s up against the sidewalls in his rather long and narrow livingroom back in Illinois, kind of making the sidewals “disappear”!!!! Later I understood that Chris was working in the same direction, minimising early reflections with his corner-horns. I ones experienced something simular, when I noticed the “open” sound of a transitor-radio placed up against the wall in a factory-hall. “No” side-wall-reflektions!!!
Some years ago I decided to make a pair of really big corner-MEH´s to get that “fullrange”-sound and lots of headroom. I chose to Build 80x60 degree horns, as my room is only 4 m wide. By chosing 80 instead of 90 degrees horizontal dispersion for the same width, the vertical dispersion-control reaches down lower! I want to control vertical dispersion down as low as possible to get as litlle reflections of the floor and ceiling as possible. The whole point being to get down under the rooms Schroeder-frequency, as Chris advocates for. My listening-room is roughly 4m wide, 8m long and 2,45 m ceiling-hight. With a 80 degree horizontal dispersion, and the horns up against the side-walls, I would create a natural toe-in and be listening to 10 degrees of-axis in the “Sweet-spot”.
This is a drawing of half of my living-room: The green post-it´s are our armchairs. I will put mine on wheels so I can easily move into the sweetspot.
I guess I will have to place som absorption on the side-walls around 2,2 meters from the front-wall. The MEH´s in the drawing are som old drawings scaled down to 1:10. I think and work out problems on paper in 1:1 or 1:10.
I made a mock-up, a wooden frame 150x110 cm, and mounted it in a corner the way I imagined the MEH would be placed, and asked my wife what she´d say to that!? She comlaint, they blocked the window a bit, and we agreed to shrink the MEH´s 12%, and settled on something like a132cm/52”H x 98cm/38,5”V for the MEH´s. I am very well married! She actually got warned when she moved in years ago, and I reserve the right to build very big speakers AND HAVE THEM IN OUR LIVING-ROOM! With that mock-up, I actually discovered, that a corner-MEH would occupy less space in my living-room then my current speakers that stand a bit out in the room! That was a plus! And I don´t have to to vacuum-clean behind the loudspeakers either, second plus!
Unfortunately the swing-couch has to go somewhere else!
Ladies and gentleman, may I proudly present: Le Grand MEH Danois
It is a wordplay on a very big speaker and this very big danish dog, the grand danois/great dane and me living in Denmark.
This is a picture of a smaller prototype without portholes to show how it´s gonna look:
I started out in HiFi/Audio in the mid 80´s with some fullrange-drivers (Coral Beta 6) in a quarter-wavelength horn that I had bought from a friend. Then I got “audiophile”, and thought I needed something more modern, and entered multiway loudspeakers! First I build some Celetion SL6. Then I build a pair of two-way-speakers with a friend of late Steen Duelund, using his syncron-filter ideas. Well it got pretty good and impressing in many ways, BUT.... Things kind of fell back in place, when I build some kitchen-loudspeakes with some old Coral Flat 5 fullrange-drivers! I attribute that to a much smother timedomain-behavior, almost minimum phase response due to the absence of crossover-filters! In the late 90´s I got some Visaton B200 fullrange-drivers and enjoyed them for many years. BUT.....you can not get loud and bass and trebble are compromised....
My very first entry/search on the internet back in 1996 was: “Hornloudspeaker”. I found the homepage by Thomas Dunker, the co-author of the big book: High Quality Horn Loudspeaker Systems. Gorgeous homepage with lots of pictures and articles, sadly it got lost. But the horn-bug had got me! I had learned about Berd Doppenbergs ORIS-horns so I started to think about horns. I joined the joe-net and learned about the Triode Festivals in Denmark. I heard a three-way hornspeaker by Peter Bahnsen, a cornerhorn looking a bit like an UFO. That was amazing, so clear and dynamic! Only 1. order filters used. Now I was on a quest to try and find knowledge about horns, and ended up here on DiyAudio, hence my username here: hornsteff.
Eventually in 2010 I abandoned the whole idea of getting a fullrange horn-system, as I reasoned that my livingroom was way too small. I figured I couldn´t get enough listening-distance to the horns in a multi-way system due to the big c-c distances, and that I would be forced to listen with my head in a vice! I even had plans to build a sub-horn using part of my first floor (I was a single back then)! Things had kind of gotten too esoteric and extreem!
Some years later I took up “recreational reading” on diyAudio, you can´t get rid of that bug! And some glorious day I discovered the Unity/Synergy/MEH! A solution to all my troubles, and started to try to understand that concept. What I failed to understand was, why people always build small Unity/Synergy/MEH-speakers? I was beginning to fantasize about a big fullrange-MEH to be a “perfect” replacement for my limited fullrange-drivers. And then one day I discovered Chris´s K402 MEH, and the lights got turned on! That was a gamechanger! Then Mark started writing about his SYN-experiments and I knew that a big MEH was my way to go.
I studied everything I could find, that Tom Danley has written here in the forum and elsewhere. I did in particular notice, that he had placed a pair of SH 50´s up against the sidewalls in his rather long and narrow livingroom back in Illinois, kind of making the sidewals “disappear”!!!! Later I understood that Chris was working in the same direction, minimising early reflections with his corner-horns. I ones experienced something simular, when I noticed the “open” sound of a transitor-radio placed up against the wall in a factory-hall. “No” side-wall-reflektions!!!
Some years ago I decided to make a pair of really big corner-MEH´s to get that “fullrange”-sound and lots of headroom. I chose to Build 80x60 degree horns, as my room is only 4 m wide. By chosing 80 instead of 90 degrees horizontal dispersion for the same width, the vertical dispersion-control reaches down lower! I want to control vertical dispersion down as low as possible to get as litlle reflections of the floor and ceiling as possible. The whole point being to get down under the rooms Schroeder-frequency, as Chris advocates for. My listening-room is roughly 4m wide, 8m long and 2,45 m ceiling-hight. With a 80 degree horizontal dispersion, and the horns up against the side-walls, I would create a natural toe-in and be listening to 10 degrees of-axis in the “Sweet-spot”.
This is a drawing of half of my living-room: The green post-it´s are our armchairs. I will put mine on wheels so I can easily move into the sweetspot.
I guess I will have to place som absorption on the side-walls around 2,2 meters from the front-wall. The MEH´s in the drawing are som old drawings scaled down to 1:10. I think and work out problems on paper in 1:1 or 1:10.
I made a mock-up, a wooden frame 150x110 cm, and mounted it in a corner the way I imagined the MEH would be placed, and asked my wife what she´d say to that!? She comlaint, they blocked the window a bit, and we agreed to shrink the MEH´s 12%, and settled on something like a132cm/52”H x 98cm/38,5”V for the MEH´s. I am very well married! She actually got warned when she moved in years ago, and I reserve the right to build very big speakers AND HAVE THEM IN OUR LIVING-ROOM! With that mock-up, I actually discovered, that a corner-MEH would occupy less space in my living-room then my current speakers that stand a bit out in the room! That was a plus! And I don´t have to to vacuum-clean behind the loudspeakers either, second plus!
Unfortunately the swing-couch has to go somewhere else!
from post #5,
"I found the homepage by Thomas Dunker, the co-author of the big book: High Quality Horn Loudspeaker Systems. Gorgeous homepage with lots of pictures and articles, sadly it got lost."
Is this it?
https://web.archive.org/web/20060208092311/http://www.omegav.ntnu.no/~dunker/horns.html
"I found the homepage by Thomas Dunker, the co-author of the big book: High Quality Horn Loudspeaker Systems. Gorgeous homepage with lots of pictures and articles, sadly it got lost."
Is this it?
https://web.archive.org/web/20060208092311/http://www.omegav.ntnu.no/~dunker/horns.html
Part 2
Eventually Mark discovered the “blessings” of the 4” midranges, and I was sold on that idea, as I disliked those big woofer-ports so close to the CD. That made me settle for a three-way MEH.
How would I build/design the MEH? Midranges and woofers on the sides or on the top/bottom-plates? It had to fit into a corner/up against a sidewall like Tom Danley´s SH50´s. I conducted many thought-experiments while walking in the woods, pro and con for this and that. I was kind of obsessing about the throat-geometry and all kinds of other “What if´s”. I was searching for a design, that would allow for experiments and some changes, without having to start all over every time.
As my middle-name is “complicated”, I came up with this rather difficult design: To build the MEH upside down, starting with the secondary flares, and making the “inner” horn-section detachable. A modular design that allowes me to upgrade for better plywood, drivers and for exampla a 3D printed round-to-square-adapter........... I actually had to go modular to get peace of mind, keep options open and get started!
I decided to mount the midranges and the woofers on the top- and bottom-plates for the horn to better fit into a corner. And be able to place the midranges/woofers centered over the portholes and stil have the portholes in the corners!
The MEH had to be visually pleasing as it is so big and dominates the room. So I decided to make the secondary flares end the last 8% of the primary flare out of pine-tree as a fixed frame to which removable plywood panels of the inner horn are attached. That also made it possible to make a round-over from primary to secondary flare in the pine-tree. (I hade of course tried to figure out how to make something like the K402, with tractrix-mouth-tranition, but had to settle om my “less complicated” compromise of a round-over to get going.) Here a picture seen from the front:
And a picture from the backside, here seen with part of the removable plywood side-panels of the inner horn:
The MEH´s need a stand and for that I will build two corner-subs with to 18” woofers each working opposed in a closed enclosure. I keep on working with closed enclosures to keep just something simple! And I guess that four 18” woofers should suffice in my room!?
A drawing of the SUB in the corner with a MEH on top:
And here with the MEH flipped to the side to show the SUB:
After what feels like a marathon/mountain-climb I finally got started with my Grand MEH Danois build around summer 2023. It has been a looong journey. I had to make room for a MEH-workshop in my basement and what not! But I have come to the conclusion, that I can not buy such a system for money! You can not put a SH96 up in a corner. Maybe a pair of SH60´s could do the trick, but.....? So I do think DIY is the way to go here, although it has not been on a low budget!?
It is of course an active 4-way speaker, and I decided to go on with what I have: MiniDSP plate-amps and a MiniDSP OPEN DRC as kind of a “preamplifier”. All cables balanced digital AES/EBU! All digital from PC to Plate-amps! I actually had to buy an analog to digital converter to play my old records! I also own a MiniDSP U-DIO8 8 chanal USB-interface, so that I can create a PC based crossover with FIR-filters if I want to go that route. The German Acourate by Uli Brueggemann is very tempting! I am not sure I would have gone the MiniDSP-route today, but that was a choise made in 2017, when I wanted to go “all digital” with the speakers I planed to build back then. Here is a picture of the speakers and the proud father:
We call them "The cute little ones". It was my last go on a traditional multiway-speaker. The top cabinets have super-elliptically-rounded edges to minimize diffraction. Well they still spray the sound all over the room!!! I needed a MEH!
The drivers I plan to use are a pair of Faital Pro HF1440 that I got second hand from Finland. Then there are four B&C 4NDF34 midranges in each MEH. The woofers are some old Visaton BGS38 15” drivers, two per MEH.
The drivers in the sub are Monacor SPH-450TC, I had two and got two more used. They will be crossed below a 100Hz or lower.
Then of course there is the prospect of driver-sag! I think I have come up with a practical solution to turn my speakers upside/down once a year on something lika a “service-cart”. The MEH´s are going to get heavy, so the plan is to assemble them on the service-cart and tip them over on the subs!? We will see. I will post pictures when I am that far.
As of now I am working on the inner horn, preparing for a way to mount a removable enclosure........
Eventually Mark discovered the “blessings” of the 4” midranges, and I was sold on that idea, as I disliked those big woofer-ports so close to the CD. That made me settle for a three-way MEH.
How would I build/design the MEH? Midranges and woofers on the sides or on the top/bottom-plates? It had to fit into a corner/up against a sidewall like Tom Danley´s SH50´s. I conducted many thought-experiments while walking in the woods, pro and con for this and that. I was kind of obsessing about the throat-geometry and all kinds of other “What if´s”. I was searching for a design, that would allow for experiments and some changes, without having to start all over every time.
As my middle-name is “complicated”, I came up with this rather difficult design: To build the MEH upside down, starting with the secondary flares, and making the “inner” horn-section detachable. A modular design that allowes me to upgrade for better plywood, drivers and for exampla a 3D printed round-to-square-adapter........... I actually had to go modular to get peace of mind, keep options open and get started!
I decided to mount the midranges and the woofers on the top- and bottom-plates for the horn to better fit into a corner. And be able to place the midranges/woofers centered over the portholes and stil have the portholes in the corners!
The MEH had to be visually pleasing as it is so big and dominates the room. So I decided to make the secondary flares end the last 8% of the primary flare out of pine-tree as a fixed frame to which removable plywood panels of the inner horn are attached. That also made it possible to make a round-over from primary to secondary flare in the pine-tree. (I hade of course tried to figure out how to make something like the K402, with tractrix-mouth-tranition, but had to settle om my “less complicated” compromise of a round-over to get going.) Here a picture seen from the front:
And a picture from the backside, here seen with part of the removable plywood side-panels of the inner horn:
The MEH´s need a stand and for that I will build two corner-subs with to 18” woofers each working opposed in a closed enclosure. I keep on working with closed enclosures to keep just something simple! And I guess that four 18” woofers should suffice in my room!?
A drawing of the SUB in the corner with a MEH on top:
And here with the MEH flipped to the side to show the SUB:
After what feels like a marathon/mountain-climb I finally got started with my Grand MEH Danois build around summer 2023. It has been a looong journey. I had to make room for a MEH-workshop in my basement and what not! But I have come to the conclusion, that I can not buy such a system for money! You can not put a SH96 up in a corner. Maybe a pair of SH60´s could do the trick, but.....? So I do think DIY is the way to go here, although it has not been on a low budget!?
It is of course an active 4-way speaker, and I decided to go on with what I have: MiniDSP plate-amps and a MiniDSP OPEN DRC as kind of a “preamplifier”. All cables balanced digital AES/EBU! All digital from PC to Plate-amps! I actually had to buy an analog to digital converter to play my old records! I also own a MiniDSP U-DIO8 8 chanal USB-interface, so that I can create a PC based crossover with FIR-filters if I want to go that route. The German Acourate by Uli Brueggemann is very tempting! I am not sure I would have gone the MiniDSP-route today, but that was a choise made in 2017, when I wanted to go “all digital” with the speakers I planed to build back then. Here is a picture of the speakers and the proud father:
We call them "The cute little ones". It was my last go on a traditional multiway-speaker. The top cabinets have super-elliptically-rounded edges to minimize diffraction. Well they still spray the sound all over the room!!! I needed a MEH!
The drivers I plan to use are a pair of Faital Pro HF1440 that I got second hand from Finland. Then there are four B&C 4NDF34 midranges in each MEH. The woofers are some old Visaton BGS38 15” drivers, two per MEH.
The drivers in the sub are Monacor SPH-450TC, I had two and got two more used. They will be crossed below a 100Hz or lower.
Then of course there is the prospect of driver-sag! I think I have come up with a practical solution to turn my speakers upside/down once a year on something lika a “service-cart”. The MEH´s are going to get heavy, so the plan is to assemble them on the service-cart and tip them over on the subs!? We will see. I will post pictures when I am that far.
As of now I am working on the inner horn, preparing for a way to mount a removable enclosure........
Last edited:
Part 3
To sum up, I have kind of made some basic decisions and started from there like a SUDOKU:
I wanted some really big MEH´s to control directivity as far down in frequency as possible/reasonable in my room
132cm/52"Hx98cm/38,5"V
80Hx60V, ratio 1,35:1
corner-placement up against the sidewalls (as Tom Danley did with his SH50´s in his living-room back in Illinois)
secondary flares with rounded edges (approximating some tractrix flares)
1,4" compression-driver (Faital Pro HF1440), that can be upgradet to a BMS 4594HE if I want that in the future. 1,4" is a sweet-spot/good compromise I think
midranges (4x4NDF34 16 ohm as Mark uses)
I start with two old 15" woofers I have (Visaton BGS38), but the MEH can be upgraded with four 10" og 12" woofers if I want that in the future
midranges and woofers mounted on top/bottom panels that can be changed, modular design!
15mm plywood for the horn and 12mm plywood for the enclosure. I found some WISA TWIN that had an OK price, as my MEH is modular I can upgrade to birch-ply.
Here are some of my "drawings", mostly 1:1 on partical-board:
This is a vertical cut through the primary horn and the top/bottom-panels in real size:
Next we have a horizontal cut and details on the side-panels:
1:1 photocopies of the drivers on the horn to check for placement:
Here a picture where I find space for the midranges and woofer on the "motor-board" / top/bottom-plates:
A picture of my workshop for Mark 🙂 . The MEH-factory.
Well, I hope you enjoyed the tour. I will report when there is something to show.
Steffen
To sum up, I have kind of made some basic decisions and started from there like a SUDOKU:
I wanted some really big MEH´s to control directivity as far down in frequency as possible/reasonable in my room
132cm/52"Hx98cm/38,5"V
80Hx60V, ratio 1,35:1
corner-placement up against the sidewalls (as Tom Danley did with his SH50´s in his living-room back in Illinois)
secondary flares with rounded edges (approximating some tractrix flares)
1,4" compression-driver (Faital Pro HF1440), that can be upgradet to a BMS 4594HE if I want that in the future. 1,4" is a sweet-spot/good compromise I think
midranges (4x4NDF34 16 ohm as Mark uses)
I start with two old 15" woofers I have (Visaton BGS38), but the MEH can be upgraded with four 10" og 12" woofers if I want that in the future
midranges and woofers mounted on top/bottom panels that can be changed, modular design!
15mm plywood for the horn and 12mm plywood for the enclosure. I found some WISA TWIN that had an OK price, as my MEH is modular I can upgrade to birch-ply.
Here are some of my "drawings", mostly 1:1 on partical-board:
This is a vertical cut through the primary horn and the top/bottom-panels in real size:
Next we have a horizontal cut and details on the side-panels:
1:1 photocopies of the drivers on the horn to check for placement:
Here a picture where I find space for the midranges and woofer on the "motor-board" / top/bottom-plates:
A picture of my workshop for Mark 🙂 . The MEH-factory.
Well, I hope you enjoyed the tour. I will report when there is something to show.
Steffen
Hi Mark
Fortunately i made a small prototype, trial and error, and learned a lot from that. When I conceived the idea to build the MEH up-side-down, I had no idea how complicated it would get! If anyone wants to know how I did, just ask and I will try to explain. But it is really way too complicated.
Should I build a new MEH today today, I would probably build the primary horn like Mark and do the secondary horn like our Australien member oohms:
https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/232459-klipsch-k402-replica-build/page/2/
Very good thread with good pictures.
Steffen
Fortunately i made a small prototype, trial and error, and learned a lot from that. When I conceived the idea to build the MEH up-side-down, I had no idea how complicated it would get! If anyone wants to know how I did, just ask and I will try to explain. But it is really way too complicated.
Should I build a new MEH today today, I would probably build the primary horn like Mark and do the secondary horn like our Australien member oohms:
https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/232459-klipsch-k402-replica-build/page/2/
Very good thread with good pictures.
Steffen
Hi Steffen, I am amazed at the amount of planning and detail you've put into your project. No one can ever say you don't do your homework !!
Thx for the link to Oohm's thread....had not seen that one. Great thread, super build.
I used his older thread, where he replicated the k_402's horn by adding curved foam board flares, as the basis for my syn7 version. It did have the smoothest polars of any build I've made. I really wish there was an easy way to make curved wood secondaries....but then again, maybe not as I'm no longer willing to even fool with straight secondaries LOl
Really looking forward to your posts as project progresses....🙂
Thx for the link to Oohm's thread....had not seen that one. Great thread, super build.
I used his older thread, where he replicated the k_402's horn by adding curved foam board flares, as the basis for my syn7 version. It did have the smoothest polars of any build I've made. I really wish there was an easy way to make curved wood secondaries....but then again, maybe not as I'm no longer willing to even fool with straight secondaries LOl
Really looking forward to your posts as project progresses....🙂
Steffen
Are you planning on crossing to the HF1440 at about 1000hz ? I’ll be very interested to to see how they perform in this set up. Another
”cheap” option might be the HF108 which Legis says he prefere over the H1440 and TAD 4001 !
And Troy has had good results with the SB 65CDN-T . . .
Are you planning on crossing to the HF1440 at about 1000hz ? I’ll be very interested to to see how they perform in this set up. Another
”cheap” option might be the HF108 which Legis says he prefere over the H1440 and TAD 4001 !
And Troy has had good results with the SB 65CDN-T . . .
Very impressive. Interesting that you were tempted to try the AXI2050. That would have made life a little easier electrically but wouldn't have changed the woodwork much.
Will it be a challenge getting it up the basement stairs?
Will it be a challenge getting it up the basement stairs?
Hi Studley
I am not sure where the XO will be, but around a 1000 Hz I guess. I have had a period of non activity due to some stress, but hope to get going again soon. I am good at woodworking but have to learn to use REW now to make some experiments to see where it is wise to make the tap-holes for the midrange- and woofer-taps.
I am tempted to move the midrange-taps as close as possible to the throat, based on Mark100 's experience. I have made no simulations at all, just thought, that if I keep kind of close to Mark's SYN's it will come out OK!?
I will try Chris's IIR way, bur sometimes I feel very tempted to go FIR like Mark with Accourat. The only problem being lip-sync-issues when watching you-tube or television!
Time to eat!
Steffen
I am not sure where the XO will be, but around a 1000 Hz I guess. I have had a period of non activity due to some stress, but hope to get going again soon. I am good at woodworking but have to learn to use REW now to make some experiments to see where it is wise to make the tap-holes for the midrange- and woofer-taps.
I am tempted to move the midrange-taps as close as possible to the throat, based on Mark100 's experience. I have made no simulations at all, just thought, that if I keep kind of close to Mark's SYN's it will come out OK!?
I will try Chris's IIR way, bur sometimes I feel very tempted to go FIR like Mark with Accourat. The only problem being lip-sync-issues when watching you-tube or television!
Time to eat!
Steffen
Hi nc535
Not really, if I accept to dismantle the horn, it will almost be like a flat-pack! And I will have to dismantle it, as it is going to get pretty heavy, and I don't want to damage it on the way up from the basement. As it is a modular design it is all put together with lots of screws. I actually don't plan to glue it together to keep all options open for future experimentation.
A major idea of this project is taking as much as possible of the room out of the equation (reduce early reflections) by making the horn as big as possible, and I knew from the start it would get heavy.
Originally I had an idea of building sort of a portable/temporal travers-crane in my living, to lift the horn in place! But instead I have come up with an idea for a "service-cart" for assembling the horns and tipping them in place on the subs. The cart will also be used to turn the MEH's upside-down once a year to prevent excessive driver-sag. Hopefully it will work out as imagined.
I will share pictures as soon as I have something to show.
I have to admit that it is a lot easier and faster to make thought-experiments and imagine all kinds of things then to really build the thing! Hmm.
Steffen
Not really, if I accept to dismantle the horn, it will almost be like a flat-pack! And I will have to dismantle it, as it is going to get pretty heavy, and I don't want to damage it on the way up from the basement. As it is a modular design it is all put together with lots of screws. I actually don't plan to glue it together to keep all options open for future experimentation.
A major idea of this project is taking as much as possible of the room out of the equation (reduce early reflections) by making the horn as big as possible, and I knew from the start it would get heavy.
Originally I had an idea of building sort of a portable/temporal travers-crane in my living, to lift the horn in place! But instead I have come up with an idea for a "service-cart" for assembling the horns and tipping them in place on the subs. The cart will also be used to turn the MEH's upside-down once a year to prevent excessive driver-sag. Hopefully it will work out as imagined.
I will share pictures as soon as I have something to show.
I have to admit that it is a lot easier and faster to make thought-experiments and imagine all kinds of things then to really build the thing! Hmm.
Steffen
I'm afraid each piece will be heavy!
I did a corner synergy back in the day, but it was modest size by your standards. They waited in the garage until I got two helpers to bring them upstairs. I had a single 15" sub below each. The magnet was backed into the corner and there was ducting/baffling to direct the sound out to the side walls, with the net effect like your dual opposed 18"or a Klipsch Jubilee. I thought the bass was pretty good. Dual 18's will just be loafing, especially if your side walls are substantial. My house's sidewalls were transparent to sound below 30 or so Hz.
Its good you are doing the 2ndary flare first. I designed mine as an add-on but never actually added them on. I CNCed the pieces twice but never actually built them up. It was too much trouble when I already had good sound in the main listening position. I had all the pieces but I was missing what I needed in the way of jigs and extra support pieces to hold them together while I glued them up.
With the headroom you will have, I would worry more about my back than driver sag.
I saw with my corner horn that the distance between the two drivers, more precisely, the distance between the sound exits along the side walls results in some horizontal directivity, which may be significant depending on how high the subs play. .85m is approximately 1/4 wavelength at 100 Hz so I believe you have already considered that.
I did a corner synergy back in the day, but it was modest size by your standards. They waited in the garage until I got two helpers to bring them upstairs. I had a single 15" sub below each. The magnet was backed into the corner and there was ducting/baffling to direct the sound out to the side walls, with the net effect like your dual opposed 18"or a Klipsch Jubilee. I thought the bass was pretty good. Dual 18's will just be loafing, especially if your side walls are substantial. My house's sidewalls were transparent to sound below 30 or so Hz.
Its good you are doing the 2ndary flare first. I designed mine as an add-on but never actually added them on. I CNCed the pieces twice but never actually built them up. It was too much trouble when I already had good sound in the main listening position. I had all the pieces but I was missing what I needed in the way of jigs and extra support pieces to hold them together while I glued them up.
With the headroom you will have, I would worry more about my back than driver sag.
I saw with my corner horn that the distance between the two drivers, more precisely, the distance between the sound exits along the side walls results in some horizontal directivity, which may be significant depending on how high the subs play. .85m is approximately 1/4 wavelength at 100 Hz so I believe you have already considered that.
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I hope my MEH's can reach down well below 100Hz, maybe with a litlle boost. So the 18" subs will sum safely within 1/4WL.
Hi Steffen,
FWIW, the reason I like to keep midrange taps close to the throat is more about keeping all the ports within 1/4 at highest frequency of operation, than it is being concerned with notch frequency that we know xover needs to stay under.
(But that is because of using a CD that makes staying under notch easily doable.)
I think keeping all the ports within 1/4, even from those on the diagonal, helps with smoother polars.
Which gets tougher as a horns H & V pattern widen.
If I ever build another 90x60, I may move the ports in a bit closer still, than the 3.5" i current have in latest ones.
My vote is try both ways if possible, and any other methods you find that appear credible. I recently saw/learned that any number of first order IIR xovers can be actively strung together using Linkwitz's cascading technique. I'm look forward to seeing how it might work on syn10. (When i get done building new subs.)
I think I saw that J-River (with Mitch Barnett's assistance) has come up with a video delay to solve lip-sync. Hoping to look into that too soon.
Hi Mark
J-River is also the only software I am aware of to delay video. It is just, that I would like to use some of the functions in the Accourate Convolver. Well maybe I have to use both, depending on what I want to do!? I have to persuade Uli Brueggemann to implement a video-delay-function in his software. I also would like to suggest to him to implement a kind of 6 band equalizer like you have with your Q-SYS-setup with faders on each driver and steep filters, as discussed in your SYN 11 tread, to adjust tracks.
I hope/think that placing my drivers/taps on the top and bottom plates works positively in that regard, as the taps get closer diagonally placed there.
J-River is also the only software I am aware of to delay video. It is just, that I would like to use some of the functions in the Accourate Convolver. Well maybe I have to use both, depending on what I want to do!? I have to persuade Uli Brueggemann to implement a video-delay-function in his software. I also would like to suggest to him to implement a kind of 6 band equalizer like you have with your Q-SYS-setup with faders on each driver and steep filters, as discussed in your SYN 11 tread, to adjust tracks.
I hope/think that placing my drivers/taps on the top and bottom plates works positively in that regard, as the taps get closer diagonally placed there.