Huh? You don't need photos... google what a butterfly patch is... after you figure that out... now contemplate whether you would have a patch, on any finish side you of wood working... let alone that you only have patches on B and C grade wood... and A Grade plywood is meant for finished surfaces... Why do you need a "better picture" to realize how this is inherently wrong? When you apply stain, the seems of the patch will be accentuated...
As you can see in the above example... this isn't something meant for finish, let alone, the mouth of a horn, thats facing the listener... if you can't get that, you just don't want to 😉
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"A" grade plywood is the highest quality, with a smooth and paintable surface. It typically does not have butterfly patches because:
- Quality Control: "A" grade veneers are selected for being free of major defects that would require such patches.
- Purpose: This top-grade plywood is intended for visible surfaces in high-quality work where appearance matters.
"No, in high-quality wood furniture where the grain and finish are important aspects of the piece's aesthetic, you would not expect to see a patch disrupting the woodgrain. High-end furniture typically uses carefully selected wood with consistent grain patterns and without defects that would require patching. Any necessary repairs or stabilization should be done in a way that preserves or enhances the natural beauty of the woodgrain."
I gave them their most expensive single horn purchase till this date... what agreement did I engage in to result in this... show me another of their horns with the same result... this was intentional because it was not only easily avoidable, it doesn't represent high quality
Regarding cutoff... it means not much in hands of a vendor.... you see my horn being described as 140hz and 120hx cutoff... I asked for 150hz cutoff... I think the horn is tuned low enough, but If I were educated more on topic I could of been more specific. Cutoff is not an item I have complained about... you yourself, claimed that the mouth of the horn is not large enough to avoid issues of modulation. All suggested was that any person who finds myself in the position to have a horn built... should understand these aspects and details so that their hard earned money is compensated with a product of predicted performance, instead of, like me... just trusting a vendor to know what to do or what not to do...
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There used to be one where the cutoff was described as 160hz which is actually the F3 of the horn... I can't find that one... Matter of Fact I don't recall the horn ever being described as with a 120hz cutoff and I think they went back and changed it from 160hz to 120hz! We see here the same horn being described as a cutoff of 140hz which is actually the F13
and they even went as far as to describe my horn to have a cutoff of 120hz which F21Why show this? I'm just showing you that, a persons traits, bleeds through in ways that they cannot predict so the evidence needed to prove a person is a certain way, will always be present, somewhere, you just have to know where to look... In this case, we are dealing with a dishonest vendor, which technically they aren't lying because Cutoff has no real meaning without being defined by the person whos saying it. When you go and ask for a horn just like in the picture, expecting a horn with a cutoff of 120hz, 140hz, 150hz, 155hz, 160hz.... you will get the same horn or Naw?
if you are lucky, it won't be smaller..... If they are willing to lie to their audience.... Lie to me.... Now you are certain that they would not lie to you, about my interaction with them... and your current contract... you a purposely turning a blind eye.... You are good with words but you aren't that good. You will just avoid the topic all together, which is well played because you can't lose a fight that you won't participate in...
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I do not think it questionable to disclose internal agreements if one side violates them. It that case I want to know what was agreed to and what was negligent and I'll decide for myself. Clearly a defaulting party to an agreement is not going to give permission to disclose it.
So what are two sides?
Im not at my computer at the moment, I hope to hear @Gedlees thoughts on a driver covering a very large bandwidth while staying within xmax and also the same situation but staying within a very low amount of excursion, like less than 0.25mm vs imd/thd and whatever issues of accuracy
I approached LMH and said I have X amount of money that I can afford for Y product, eventually it came down to take it or leave it.... they took it. Within a few days they'd purchased the raw materials needed... within another week or so, I was met with a message saying how they cannot deliver on the original agreement... I was accused of talking them into an arrangement they could never realistically deliver on, and have taken advantage of their "good will"... I immediately recognized the manipulative tactics and that I was at a complete disadvantage, lacking any buyers protection.... I pretended to play ball for the rest of the transaction out fear of them going all out, in the most negative way....
These guys are not noobs either, they have done things to try and cover their tracks... the best way I can describe it is that after a small period of time after the transaction was finally delivered upon, the emails in my Gmail account do not appear as they originally did I don't think they were able to actually remove information but the best way I can describe it is that the emails do not appear as they originally did and it's very hard to organize the messages now... the easy way to say it is that it's apparent that that somebody did something....
I approached LMH and said I have X amount of money that I can afford for Y product, eventually it came down to take it or leave it.... they took it. Within a few days they'd purchased the raw materials needed... within another week or so, I was met with a message saying how they cannot deliver on the original agreement... I was accused of talking them into an arrangement they could never realistically deliver on, and have taken advantage of their "good will"... I immediately recognized the manipulative tactics and that I was at a complete disadvantage, lacking any buyers protection.... I pretended to play ball for the rest of the transaction out fear of them going all out, in the most negative way....
These guys are not noobs either, they have done things to try and cover their tracks... the best way I can describe it is that after a small period of time after the transaction was finally delivered upon, the emails in my Gmail account do not appear as they originally did I don't think they were able to actually remove information but the best way I can describe it is that the emails do not appear as they originally did and it's very hard to organize the messages now... the easy way to say it is that it's apparent that that somebody did something....
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Don't you know, that I know, how crazy, this sounds?!? 🤣🤣🤣
For example, I have evidence of certain things due to my sent emails where it quotes the previous email... but I search for text from that source and nothing comes up in my inbox...
Those guys are the real deal 🤣 I don't have their emails of important things said and I recall the memory of when the messages first disappeared 🤓
For example, I have evidence of certain things due to my sent emails where it quotes the previous email... but I search for text from that source and nothing comes up in my inbox...
Those guys are the real deal 🤣 I don't have their emails of important things said and I recall the memory of when the messages first disappeared 🤓
I strongly believe that in my country it is not allowed to disclose internals of a business transaction regardless either side decides that the other violates something. And who claims the right to spread the whole thing on the Internet? It's okay to seek advice or file a lawsuit, but it's not okay to spread the whole thing on the Internet. Was it communicated to leave the horns in their raw state or to paint them? Has camplo fulfilled all of its promises that have agreed to in this transaction? Many other questions that should not be discussed on the Internet. In my opinion, camplo is walking down a narrow path towards potentially damaging the reputation of another person who is running a business, and that can end up being pretty unpleasant. Just the claim that the corresponding emails in his own account were changed or disappeared borders on conspiracy theories in my opinion. What a nonsense, IMO.
Lol yeah but I have proof of my claims, so theres that 😃
Heres where alot of our correspondence should be organized... it just looks like Im emailing myself 😃
I have evidence of there emails from 9/21 to 10/21 thanks to my sent emails... but I have not the actual messages... their emails are automatically quoted in my sent emails... but their actual email's from those times, disappeared not long after I got the horns... I recall thinking... hmm this doesn't look the same... then thinking holy crap, they some how removed their messages from the message thread... which should be impossible... and thats pretty hardcore 🤣
I remember them being especially pssd off when I first shared pictures of the butterfly patch upon first receiving the horns.
Ummm ever heard of yelp reviews? Didn't I tell you guys Docali wouldn't address the cutoff topic?
Heres where alot of our correspondence should be organized... it just looks like Im emailing myself 😃
I have evidence of there emails from 9/21 to 10/21 thanks to my sent emails... but I have not the actual messages... their emails are automatically quoted in my sent emails... but their actual email's from those times, disappeared not long after I got the horns... I recall thinking... hmm this doesn't look the same... then thinking holy crap, they some how removed their messages from the message thread... which should be impossible... and thats pretty hardcore 🤣
I remember them being especially pssd off when I first shared pictures of the butterfly patch upon first receiving the horns.
Ummm ever heard of yelp reviews? Didn't I tell you guys Docali wouldn't address the cutoff topic?
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because it is relating to myself, I am within the rules 👍 those are my ownership... you have gone on without even touching the topic of cutoff? Do you see a conspiracy theory involved in the description of the cutoff of my horn? 🤣
I can tell you why they do it... they are trying to take advantage... of purchase envy... hoping another customer will purchase a larger, more expensive horn based off of what someone else has falsely reported to have bought... the dishonesty 😫
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I am happy for you, thank goodness you have no butterfly patches on the front of your horns 😛
I have used a ton of Baltic birch in the last year. There is always a patch somewhere, and sometimes small voids. It's a normal and unavoidable part of the plywood. It's plywood. My patches look like a football. Get over it. Consider it a normal part of the product. It is normal to have some patches.
Thankfully, what I built with it is well above grade. I bought the best available where I live. None of the patches can be seen when I sit at MLP. None of the patches affect the sound or my psyche.
I used General Finishes products for the finish. Best finishes for any wood project.
I used General Finishes products for the finish. Best finishes for any wood project.
Yes, but the ethics involved... horns are not a cheap purchase. They are meant to be seen and heard, it is a product of high level carpentry, like an expensive furniture.
If you bought a really expensive wood horn from overseas, and when it arrived, it had a butterfly patch on the wood grain facing the listener how would you feel?
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If you purchased an expensive wood horn and it arrived with a butterfly patch on the visible wood grain, your reaction might include:
What about the ethics involved?
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The ethics involved in the scenario you described would typically center around:
The seller has used pictures of my horn describing it in various post to have a 160hz, 120hz, 150hz, 155hz, and 140hz cutoff... I know they know what they are doing is misleading.. the cutoffs that are incorrect are mostly of a larger more expensive product than my horn...what do you think about this? Why would they do this?
If the seller is using images of your horn but listing incorrect cutoff frequencies that correspond to larger, more expensive products, it appears they may be engaging in:
As someone affected by this misrepresentation, you might consider taking action such as contacting the seller for rectification, reporting them to the platform they're selling on, or seeking advice on consumer rights protection."
Could they be trying to entice customers to purchase more expensive items out of purchase envy?
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Yes, the seller could be using the tactic of "purchase envy" to entice customers by:
If you wanted to see what a logical conversation might look like, here ya go 🤓
If you bought a really expensive wood horn from overseas, and when it arrived, it had a butterfly patch on the wood grain facing the listener how would you feel?
"
If you purchased an expensive wood horn and it arrived with a butterfly patch on the visible wood grain, your reaction might include:
- Surprise: Expecting flawless quality due to high cost.
- Disappointment: Patch may not align with expected aesthetics.
- Concern: Questioning structural integrity or craftsmanship.
What about the ethics involved?
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The ethics involved in the scenario you described would typically center around:
- Transparency: The seller should disclose any significant alterations, like a butterfly patch, especially if the item is marketed as high-end or luxury.
- Honesty: It's expected that sellers accurately represent their products to avoid misleading customers.
- Customer Expectations: High-value items come with an expectation of quality and craftsmanship. A visible patch may not meet these expectations unless it was clearly stated as part of the design.
The seller has used pictures of my horn describing it in various post to have a 160hz, 120hz, 150hz, 155hz, and 140hz cutoff... I know they know what they are doing is misleading.. the cutoffs that are incorrect are mostly of a larger more expensive product than my horn...what do you think about this? Why would they do this?
If the seller is using images of your horn but listing incorrect cutoff frequencies that correspond to larger, more expensive products, it appears they may be engaging in:
- False Advertising: To make the product seem more valuable or capable than it actually is.
- Bait-and-Switch Tactics: Attracting customers with specs of a higher-end item and then selling something else.
As someone affected by this misrepresentation, you might consider taking action such as contacting the seller for rectification, reporting them to the platform they're selling on, or seeking advice on consumer rights protection."
Could they be trying to entice customers to purchase more expensive items out of purchase envy?
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Yes, the seller could be using the tactic of "purchase envy" to entice customers by:
- Creating Aspiration: Customers see the specs of a more expensive item and desire those features.
- Upselling: Once interested, customers might be persuaded to buy the higher-end (and more expensive) product.
If you wanted to see what a logical conversation might look like, here ya go 🤓
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