I recently picked up a used 97 Lincoln Mark viii with the JBL audio. I'm surprised at how much I enjoy the sound of it. It needs a touch more brightness up top, but that's partly because my ears are old. The linear response down to about 60hz is quite pleasant.
Since the car sat in a garage for a decade before I unearthed it, the speakers have quickly deteriorated in the last 6 months. Surrounds are toast, cones have some dampness damage from condensation, and they're just done. For the first time I'm not looking to really upgrade. I could go the whole way and go HU/amp/speakers, but I'm not really looking to spend a ton on a cheap daily. I just want to pick drivers that will match well with the existing setup and not end up sounding completely different. JBL and Lincoln spent a lot of money on little tricks to make it sound good and be relatively proprietary, so I'm hoping to be able to pick drivers that will restore things, but I have a feeling that an upgrade won't be a good match.
So how do I sift through parameters to find something that might work well?
Since the car sat in a garage for a decade before I unearthed it, the speakers have quickly deteriorated in the last 6 months. Surrounds are toast, cones have some dampness damage from condensation, and they're just done. For the first time I'm not looking to really upgrade. I could go the whole way and go HU/amp/speakers, but I'm not really looking to spend a ton on a cheap daily. I just want to pick drivers that will match well with the existing setup and not end up sounding completely different. JBL and Lincoln spent a lot of money on little tricks to make it sound good and be relatively proprietary, so I'm hoping to be able to pick drivers that will restore things, but I have a feeling that an upgrade won't be a good match.
So how do I sift through parameters to find something that might work well?
Hi, your ears are probably good, and something is really missing on the sound.
Just add.
To replace the standard speakers you need to know the model and the parameters, for the first I think the car manufacturer can answer, for the second I think the JBL factory can answer.
Unfortunately it is not always so simple to ask the factories for documentation, for this reason I suggest getting help from a professional installer.
Lastly, if you really want those speakers, you can take them to a professional to see if they are salvageable.
For me this is almost always the best solution.
Just add.
To replace the standard speakers you need to know the model and the parameters, for the first I think the car manufacturer can answer, for the second I think the JBL factory can answer.
Unfortunately it is not always so simple to ask the factories for documentation, for this reason I suggest getting help from a professional installer.
Lastly, if you really want those speakers, you can take them to a professional to see if they are salvageable.
For me this is almost always the best solution.
The one with the four OHC engine?
The manufacturers often get the sound very good because they can custom tailor the speakers/equalization/placement. Have you tried getting OEM replacements for the speakers?
You may just need to upgrade the tweeters.
The manufacturers often get the sound very good because they can custom tailor the speakers/equalization/placement. Have you tried getting OEM replacements for the speakers?
You may just need to upgrade the tweeters.
Yup, the 4-cam version of the 4.6L mod.
The word in Mark8 circles is that there is no NOS supply of factory speakers. Some companies market replacement speakers, but they're made by Scosche and they're not anything like the factory speakers in construction or sound. They're evidently just cheap random 6x8s.
I suppose I could give a call to JBL. I'm certain they don't still make them, and I doubt it's a question they get often enough to know how to answer, but it's worth a shot. I was hoping the part number would turn up something, but it's just a Ford part number and unrelated to JBL
The word in Mark8 circles is that there is no NOS supply of factory speakers. Some companies market replacement speakers, but they're made by Scosche and they're not anything like the factory speakers in construction or sound. They're evidently just cheap random 6x8s.
I suppose I could give a call to JBL. I'm certain they don't still make them, and I doubt it's a question they get often enough to know how to answer, but it's worth a shot. I was hoping the part number would turn up something, but it's just a Ford part number and unrelated to JBL
We had one. The air suspension went out. A kit to replace it with conventional suspension worked very well. That thing was impressively fast.
What about replacing the surrounds. There are kits to do just that. For the most part, the sound will remain the same. It's not like reconing where the sound can change dramatically. Buy some identical OEM speakers with the same problem and practice on them. If they turn out well, use them or do the same to the ones you have.
What about replacing the surrounds. There are kits to do just that. For the most part, the sound will remain the same. It's not like reconing where the sound can change dramatically. Buy some identical OEM speakers with the same problem and practice on them. If they turn out well, use them or do the same to the ones you have.
Are you sure the cones are 'done' too? Maybe some new surrounds and a coat of latex on the cones will restore them enough?
You need to take your car on a road trip out west to find some original drivers still in good shape!
I can't guarantee that the cones are wasted, but they're paper, and (again.... lore from the Mark8 intarwebs world) it's a miracle they're still in one piece. I would hate to go to the tedium of re-surrounding them only to have them crumble.
A complete redo isn't totally out of the question, but that's big money on a nearly 30-year old, $3000 car.
I'm also being told that the factory drivers are 2-ohm, and about the only things I found were some 4-ohm 6x8s which would likely tank the output of the factory amp
A complete redo isn't totally out of the question, but that's big money on a nearly 30-year old, $3000 car.
I'm also being told that the factory drivers are 2-ohm, and about the only things I found were some 4-ohm 6x8s which would likely tank the output of the factory amp
You would coat them very lightly. If no one here has suggestions for a spray coating, try one of the DIY speaker forums.
Factory Bose stuff is like that too, plus EQ'd for the exact drivers and the car interior. Poke around in some junk yards, as there's got to be a treasure trove of stock Ford/JBL stuff somewhere...
If the paper cone is not holding its shape you could try to brush on a 'lacquer' rather than latex. Got any pics of yours?
I believe you can get identical surrounds for them. You need to measure radius and so on.
Cheers!
Cheers!
By a simple search of your car & its factory speaker compliment, it seems to have the round 5 1/4 inch drivers in the doors, and an oddball six by eight at the rear. There are half a dozen makes , including JBL, that still make these size drivers as new contemporary versions. No doubt all new drivers will restore your sound to as new or likely better sound.
I had a somewhat similar situation, I got myself a Pontiac Fiero some time ago with a fully functional factory stereo, but it sounded weak, a bit distorted and not nearly "HiFi". As it turned out, the weird Four by Ten inch in-dash drivers were warped by sunlight damage. I replaced the pair with the stout Radio-shack units, the "bigger than stock" magnets just barely fit with zero clearance in the dash...the sound was night & day...the music came alive.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
I had a somewhat similar situation, I got myself a Pontiac Fiero some time ago with a fully functional factory stereo, but it sounded weak, a bit distorted and not nearly "HiFi". As it turned out, the weird Four by Ten inch in-dash drivers were warped by sunlight damage. I replaced the pair with the stout Radio-shack units, the "bigger than stock" magnets just barely fit with zero clearance in the dash...the sound was night & day...the music came alive.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
It's actually 6x8s in both the doors and rear side panels, and the front doors add a some 3.5"s.
I found some 4-ohm Infinity Reference that might work with the modest factory amps in the car. It would just be nice to know more before I pull a $300 trigger.
I found some 4-ohm Infinity Reference that might work with the modest factory amps in the car. It would just be nice to know more before I pull a $300 trigger.
Aftermarket speakers are often designed to handle much more power than the OEMs and aren't as efficient. The OEMs are often made to handle only what's available from the OEM amps and are optimized for that power. When I was selling/installing car audio (when dinosaurs still roamed the earth) many people were disappointed in replacement speakers (especially in the lower frequencies) when the OEM speakers were replaced. I don't know what's available now but, except for the tweeters, it's hard to be OEM speakers on OEM power. I'm not trying to tell you not to go aftermarket but $300 is significant. If you found a forum for these vehicles, what do the owners there think about replacements?
I know what you mean about aftermarket drivers. it's hard to compare the OEMs that were researched for that specific car/amps/HU and take a random 6x8 from Infinity or Polk and think that it will work as well.
The forum I found has plenty of Mark8 expertise, but I've yet to find an audiophile in the lot. If I want to know about which 22" wheels fit, or who does the best window tinting in Milwaukee, they're my go-to. Audio, not so much. I can't even find T/S parameters, impedance, or the specs on the factory amps. If I go aftermarket, I'll likely do Infinity Reference which are 93db sensitivity and RMS rated at only 60w. That's clearly enough capacity, and I'm going to take a wild guess that the JBL amps probably don't make much more than 25w, so the Infinitys aren't grossly burdened with a magnet so huge that they won't respond.
... but again... I won't know that until I shell out $$ for them.
My current plan is to maybe remove all four of the OEM 6x8s and do a visual and impedance check, then put the two best ones in the back and just upgrade the four front door drivers. That's a $175 investment that could theoretically be returnable if I don't leave any trace that they were installed once.
The forum I found has plenty of Mark8 expertise, but I've yet to find an audiophile in the lot. If I want to know about which 22" wheels fit, or who does the best window tinting in Milwaukee, they're my go-to. Audio, not so much. I can't even find T/S parameters, impedance, or the specs on the factory amps. If I go aftermarket, I'll likely do Infinity Reference which are 93db sensitivity and RMS rated at only 60w. That's clearly enough capacity, and I'm going to take a wild guess that the JBL amps probably don't make much more than 25w, so the Infinitys aren't grossly burdened with a magnet so huge that they won't respond.
... but again... I won't know that until I shell out $$ for them.
My current plan is to maybe remove all four of the OEM 6x8s and do a visual and impedance check, then put the two best ones in the back and just upgrade the four front door drivers. That's a $175 investment that could theoretically be returnable if I don't leave any trace that they were installed once.
I have used clear artists' spray lacquer on paper cones to good effect. It's highly aromatic so dries really quickly, and each coat is very light so as not to affect cone mass too much. Furthemore, because it's quite thin and light it is absorbed into the cone a touch to waterproof it to a degree.
Before you buy anything, get more information about the whole system. Don't buy something expensive to find out it sounds awfull.
The 2 Ohm rating is a warning the manufacturer used some custom equalizer amp. These amps are made to rund bridged on 12 Volt and can deliver high current, resulting in 25 Watt rms at 2 Ohm, but sound quality suffers audible. Good amps have a build in voltage converter, but JBL went cheap.
Often the head unit is universal, but there is an car specific amp hidden somewhere. Best would be to find a linear output from the head unit und discard the JBL amp module. Then you can fit some new amp and maybe even an active crossover to use some decend speaker. Amps have become very good and low priced compared to a decade ago.
Consider a new head unit somewere hidden, but with a remote control. Today these have build in active crossover, equalizer and time alighment and cost very little money, even from major brands like Keenwood, JVC, Alpine. Also you get all the new features you may (not) need. No use in buying any used, once expensive, old headunit.
PS reconditioning these car speakers seems very questionable. Something of similar quality usually can be bought for a few $ in electronic surplus.
The 2 Ohm rating is a warning the manufacturer used some custom equalizer amp. These amps are made to rund bridged on 12 Volt and can deliver high current, resulting in 25 Watt rms at 2 Ohm, but sound quality suffers audible. Good amps have a build in voltage converter, but JBL went cheap.
Often the head unit is universal, but there is an car specific amp hidden somewhere. Best would be to find a linear output from the head unit und discard the JBL amp module. Then you can fit some new amp and maybe even an active crossover to use some decend speaker. Amps have become very good and low priced compared to a decade ago.
Consider a new head unit somewere hidden, but with a remote control. Today these have build in active crossover, equalizer and time alighment and cost very little money, even from major brands like Keenwood, JVC, Alpine. Also you get all the new features you may (not) need. No use in buying any used, once expensive, old headunit.
PS reconditioning these car speakers seems very questionable. Something of similar quality usually can be bought for a few $ in electronic surplus.
I don't know the car, but if it is audiophile sound we are talking about, it is necessary to consider a minimum of soundproofing in the speaker housings.
Any loudspeaker will be chosen for installation, soundproofing and any wooden ring or dedicated panel will contribute fundamentally to get a clean and precise sound, especially for low frequencies.
I know it's an extra expense, but it's the best thing that can be done in the audiophile context.
There are countless approaches to your endeavour...a plain old visual inspection might reveal faults that would highlight your issues & make your decision process much easier, maybe bringing into light, an obvious solution....remember, the interior of a car is a very cruel environment for audio gear, especially speaker drivers.
### from an Infinity fan ####
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
### from an Infinity fan ####
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
