I'm looking for driver recommendations for my latest speaker build; a super high quality nearfield 'monitor' set for the study. I'd also value opinions on weather going 3-way is warranted in a small high quality build with max 5" woofer.
Project requirements:
I generally like the sound of rigid cones and am keen to experiment with some of the more open backed drivers. So far i have found the Seas W15CH001 which looks promising. Scanspeak also do an intriguing looking 12MU/8731T00, but it appears not to be suited to a 10l sealed box at all. Are there any others i should consider?
Thanks!
Project requirements:
- These will be for nearfield use, about 1m away from my face.
- The cabinets will be 10L, sealed. I have something special in mind... 😛
- I want super high quality midrange
- I want as much bass as i can reasonably get. I will likely EQ digitally or in analog, or even use room correction to extend out what i can get out of the relatively small enclosures
- I'm not looking to play at very high volumes so it can be vastly inefficient if it needs to be
- I'm undecided if i should go 2 or 3 way. I struggled with my last attempt at a 2-way with an 8" woofer, it never wanted to meet the tweeter properly and mids suffered. With a 10L cabinet and the right midbass I am wondering if a 2 way might be acceptable...
I generally like the sound of rigid cones and am keen to experiment with some of the more open backed drivers. So far i have found the Seas W15CH001 which looks promising. Scanspeak also do an intriguing looking 12MU/8731T00, but it appears not to be suited to a 10l sealed box at all. Are there any others i should consider?
Thanks!
With a high quality 5" woofer and tweeter, there is no reason to go 3-way.
Give consideration to the Purifi PTT5.25X04 or X08. It has the necessary Vd to handle bass eq.
Give consideration to the Purifi PTT5.25X04 or X08. It has the necessary Vd to handle bass eq.
@hifijim that looks like some alien tech with that surround 😀 Yes it's definitely an option, I had wondered if extending bass by EQing would impose some extra requirements on the driver
@Kwesi hmm i have a 3d printer too so could easily produce a waveguide. Somasonus does router templates too! I have never used waveguides beffore though, how do the affect the design process? presumably i would have more flexibility with how low i cross the tweeter?
@Kwesi hmm i have a 3d printer too so could easily produce a waveguide. Somasonus does router templates too! I have never used waveguides beffore though, how do the affect the design process? presumably i would have more flexibility with how low i cross the tweeter?
More difficult to get a 3 way to sum properly in the nearfield and much easier to get decent bass with close proximity. I like the 4" and 5" SB ceramic cones.
I agree that a 3-way pushed in somewhat micro enclosure is not the way to go. For 1m listening distance, keep the sound origins tight.
When you want the most clear output with lowest THD and noisefloor on paper for midwoofer duty, the Purifis are leading at the moment (but you have to pay for that. And I really dislike the surround look...).
The Seas W15CH001 and Scan Speak 12MU you mentioned are designed for midrange use, they cannot do much stroke and may struggle to EQ for more bass.
If I would need a very small SOTA desktop speaker for <1m listening distance with a deep clear sound for myself, I would take the Purifi 4" Alu Cone + Bliesma T25A just without waveguide (I like a wider dispersion, also the small 4" driver cone has wide matching dispersion up to 2k) and drive it active.
I designed once some clear sounding monitor in a 10 Liter package: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...tbcd-gb-dxt-sb-acoustics-sb15nbac30-4.391310/
For my taste that enclosure size is too big for desktop use (and beware also the voicing of the speakers is for free standmounted, not nearfield & near wall)...
When you want the most clear output with lowest THD and noisefloor on paper for midwoofer duty, the Purifis are leading at the moment (but you have to pay for that. And I really dislike the surround look...).
The Seas W15CH001 and Scan Speak 12MU you mentioned are designed for midrange use, they cannot do much stroke and may struggle to EQ for more bass.
If I would need a very small SOTA desktop speaker for <1m listening distance with a deep clear sound for myself, I would take the Purifi 4" Alu Cone + Bliesma T25A just without waveguide (I like a wider dispersion, also the small 4" driver cone has wide matching dispersion up to 2k) and drive it active.
I designed once some clear sounding monitor in a 10 Liter package: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...tbcd-gb-dxt-sb-acoustics-sb15nbac30-4.391310/
For my taste that enclosure size is too big for desktop use (and beware also the voicing of the speakers is for free standmounted, not nearfield & near wall)...
Seas L16RNX, overall very good bass for small driver and clean midrange. Single breakup peak should be easy to deal with. I have good references to this driver from hifi friend who listened to Fischer&Fischer with 2 of those in MTM.
@Kwesi Active with a digital xover is a possibility. Wouldn’t a 4" be too small for a 10L cabinet though?
@Lojzek Yes. The cabinets are Tufnol, phenolic cotton composite and I already have them mostly, Lucky ebay find reclaimed from some unrelated previous life. Front baffle is 18*40cm and internal cabinet width is 15cm wide so in theory thoughI could squeeze in a 6" it would be very close to the sides and not allow much space for internal reflection damping material. It seems a better bet not to get too greedy and go for a 5”
@picowallspeaker I have some L12RCY/P in storage actually, they simulate poorly for a 10L cabinet though, -3db at ~150Hz.
Purifi PTT5.25X04 come out to -3db at about 100Hz. Seas W15CH001 actually managed -3db at 70Hz
I see a lot of these drivers have a low Qts, under 0.4 . I have seen it recommended that for sealed cabinets driver Qts of 0.4-0.7 is ideal. I guess sealed cabinets just aren't as popular these days and that is reflected in driver availability. My original plan was to make these as mini-transmission lines, but that seemed to be overcomplicating things. I am starting to wonder though how much bass extension EQ/DSP will get me. If i went for the purifi 5" at -3db down around 100Hz on it’s own... how far could i stretch that out with eq alone... 70Hz? 40Hz? what are the limits of practicality here?
@Lojzek Yes. The cabinets are Tufnol, phenolic cotton composite and I already have them mostly, Lucky ebay find reclaimed from some unrelated previous life. Front baffle is 18*40cm and internal cabinet width is 15cm wide so in theory thoughI could squeeze in a 6" it would be very close to the sides and not allow much space for internal reflection damping material. It seems a better bet not to get too greedy and go for a 5”
@picowallspeaker I have some L12RCY/P in storage actually, they simulate poorly for a 10L cabinet though, -3db at ~150Hz.
Purifi PTT5.25X04 come out to -3db at about 100Hz. Seas W15CH001 actually managed -3db at 70Hz
I see a lot of these drivers have a low Qts, under 0.4 . I have seen it recommended that for sealed cabinets driver Qts of 0.4-0.7 is ideal. I guess sealed cabinets just aren't as popular these days and that is reflected in driver availability. My original plan was to make these as mini-transmission lines, but that seemed to be overcomplicating things. I am starting to wonder though how much bass extension EQ/DSP will get me. If i went for the purifi 5" at -3db down around 100Hz on it’s own... how far could i stretch that out with eq alone... 70Hz? 40Hz? what are the limits of practicality here?
When you use DSP EQ combined with a sealed box, the bass frequency response (i.e. alignment) does not matter very much. What matters most is volume displacement (Sd and Xmax). You might compare two woofers that have the same Sd and Xmax, but the first has a Qts of 0.45 and the second has a Qts of 0.28. In a passive non-EQ situation, the second woofer would be a poor performer in a sealed box. But with DSP EQ of the bass range, both of these woofers will perform nearly the same way.
The big advantage of the Purifi driver is the high Xmax and the very low distortion. I doubt we can find another 5" driver with distortion this low.
That's easy. Purify 5" and Bliesma T25B with waveguide.
T25B is the best behaving tweeter in these waveguides - they are not compatible with T25A! https://www.somasonus.net/bliesma-t25b
Get a nice active DSP amp with digital input, rounded edges and enough dampening in your closed volume. And later a subwoofer, SPL level will be limited ;-)
I’d suggest that for this application a 1-way is waranted.
How big a box is small?
dave
@hifijim Right, that is interesting. That would make box simulations pointless also then.
@IamJF another vote for purify and bliesma. They do seem to be the leading contenders
@planet10 I briefly considered that. I have zero experience with fullranges though, not even ever heard any. It would also have to be one special driver to deal with the heavy bass eq and cone excursion while still being about to reproduce highs. The small purifys look like they might handle it but it seems a bit of an unknown.
@IamJF another vote for purify and bliesma. They do seem to be the leading contenders
@planet10 I briefly considered that. I have zero experience with fullranges though, not even ever heard any. It would also have to be one special driver to deal with the heavy bass eq and cone excursion while still being about to reproduce highs. The small purifys look like they might handle it but it seems a bit of an unknown.
Not quite... you need to simulate the woofer+box combined with the amount of boost EQ needed to make it flat. The simulation will tell you if you are going to have enough SPL, and how much power you will need. Adding bass EQ to small woofers is something that needs to be done cautiously. It is very easy to overdrive them, even the magical heroic Purifi driver.
@hifijim right ok, and that will then answer my question about how far i can push the bass extension with EQ. I think i need to read up on SPL and using winISD, i have no idea how much SPL i 'need' or how to best reconcile that with maximum cone excursion/power
@picowallspeaker Yes, music is the most demanding part. These are to be nice speakers for my study, not exactly 'monitors' as i'm not doing pro music production.. just really nice speakers.
@picowallspeaker Yes, music is the most demanding part. These are to be nice speakers for my study, not exactly 'monitors' as i'm not doing pro music production.. just really nice speakers.
BlieSMa tweeters appear to be hard to find in the UK, everywhere that did stock them is sold out. A shame as their beryllium ones were even affordable, unlike every other true Be tweeter i have seen. Are there any close alternatives?
Is the Bliesma tweeter that much better or different than the SB Acoustic beryllium or even CDC tweeter?
I feel like the Bliesma stuff gets a lot of hype but the measurments look about the same as other very good drivers that cost less. Maybe I'm wrong?
And yes the Purifi is the way to go if you have a big wallet, EQ and a powerful amp.
I feel like the Bliesma stuff gets a lot of hype but the measurments look about the same as other very good drivers that cost less. Maybe I'm wrong?
And yes the Purifi is the way to go if you have a big wallet, EQ and a powerful amp.