Their calendars mixed up a bit 😄
The FIRST anywhere was Jensen ... for the simple and good reason that Peter Jensen invented the dynamic speaker as we know it.
Most US guitar amp manufacturers, including Fender, used Jensen until the mid 60's where they shifted focus and let the market open to US competitors (CTS, Eminence, Utah, Oxford, Rola, Pyle, University, etc.)
Celestion started in 1924-25 in the UK, so do the Math 😄
I understand that's a fun project but the REASONABLE way for a guitar player would be - get a used Katana and concentrate on playing 😉
You will never get any money back from that project (you will from the used Katana, maybe even 100%) and it will not last longterm cause your demands will change. Use your monitors when working in the box and a dedicated guitar amp when rehearsing and playing with a band.
But when you want to learn some stuff and know electronics already ... and have a LOT of time - that's a good way to do it. I learned a lot with my early projects ... but also wasted a lot of time on them 🤓
You will never get any money back from that project (you will from the used Katana, maybe even 100%) and it will not last longterm cause your demands will change. Use your monitors when working in the box and a dedicated guitar amp when rehearsing and playing with a band.
But when you want to learn some stuff and know electronics already ... and have a LOT of time - that's a good way to do it. I learned a lot with my early projects ... but also wasted a lot of time on them 🤓
I would like to learn what that means, is there a recording that you can share that demonstrates the horrible sound?
Take a look a this https://www.schertler.com/en_US/swissmade/amplifiers/acoustic-amps/jam
Or, consider this, the amp has several different output options - speaker or DI, even digital connection and BlueTooth... I have to say, amps & speakers have moved on from my days, when a Marshall stack was all you (I) desired... 😀.
Or, consider this, the amp has several different output options - speaker or DI, even digital connection and BlueTooth... I have to say, amps & speakers have moved on from my days, when a Marshall stack was all you (I) desired... 😀.
Forgot the link to the modelling amp https://hughes-and-kettner.com/product/black-spirit-200/
In the past, "making guitar sound" was often an interplay between guitar, amp and speaker, recorded/amplified via microphone. Today you can model sound in many ways, and to a higher quality, I believe 🙂.
Btw., I have a couple of Eket, and they are not very sturdy. Vinyl wrapped and very light, I'm guessing not very good for screws, so be gentle. Glueing is good 🙂.
In the past, "making guitar sound" was often an interplay between guitar, amp and speaker, recorded/amplified via microphone. Today you can model sound in many ways, and to a higher quality, I believe 🙂.
Btw., I have a couple of Eket, and they are not very sturdy. Vinyl wrapped and very light, I'm guessing not very good for screws, so be gentle. Glueing is good 🙂.
Nobody cares to record that 😄
Know many "nails on the blackboard" 😫 recordings? ............
Me neither.
Test it yourself, plug any Guitar combo out, not into its original speaker but into a Hi Fi full range cabinet and play a little Rock'n Roll .... 🤮🤮🤮
There is a reason modern Guitar amps, preamps, and pedalboards include a "cabinet simulator" (the name itself Is a clue) , designed to destroy HiFi response, flatness, murder highs (to the tune of 12-18-24 dB/oct starting at 3500Hz) and so on.
Straight from https://www.valvewizard.co.uk/cabsim.html and for didactic purposes:
This one murders highs above 2 kHz
Why would anybody add a Tweeter to his Guitar Cabinet?
Quoting from same page, which is recommended reading:
by themselves, these two filters do not produce enough cut-off outside the desired bandwidth, so some extra help is needed. To get steeper cut-off at low frequencies, the input coupling cap C3 is made deliberately small, only 2.2nF. When combined with the low-frequency bridged-T this creates a response that looks second order down to subterranean 30Hz. Below that it reverts back to the first-order response of the input coupling cap alone, but that doesn't matter much at such low frequencies.
At the treble end we need even steeper cut-off to simulate a speaker, at least third order. To keep the circuit simple, this is acheived by adding another bridged-T notch filter after the opamp. The roller-coaster drop into the notch makes the overall response look third order, until we actually hit the notch around 7kHz.
Of course, a Guitar speaker does that all by itself, no electronic wizardry needed.
Compare this to any HiFi cabinet response:
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I have a question for the experienced guitar players. Does the amp change the way the guitar feels?
What I mean is, does feedback occur? There is an obvious example of putting the magnetic pickups of the guitar near the speaker magnet. What about the amp loading of the pickups, does it affect the feel of the strings like an amp damping a speaker cone?
I suppose the typical high output levels of a guitar amp in a practice room or live event will give feedback that does not occur with studio headphone monitoring or low level speakers.
What I mean is, does feedback occur? There is an obvious example of putting the magnetic pickups of the guitar near the speaker magnet. What about the amp loading of the pickups, does it affect the feel of the strings like an amp damping a speaker cone?
I suppose the typical high output levels of a guitar amp in a practice room or live event will give feedback that does not occur with studio headphone monitoring or low level speakers.
The OP spoke of using a cab sim also.......
Let's assume that I don't have an electric or a hi-fi for a moment. Be easier to just demonstrate with a lil recording then writing an essay which didn't convey what that horrible sound sounds like
It's difficult to follow the conversation without knowing what the horrible sound sounds like, so please, kindly, requesting to share a lil recording of this horrible sound?
Let's assume that I don't have an electric or a hi-fi for a moment. Be easier to just demonstrate with a lil recording then writing an essay which didn't convey what that horrible sound sounds like
It's difficult to follow the conversation without knowing what the horrible sound sounds like, so please, kindly, requesting to share a lil recording of this horrible sound?
Cab sims IME haven't sounded very good.
Regarding guitar amps and speakers, a nice guitar speaker can sound lovely/beautiful (what people sometimes call "chime"). OTOH hi-fi speakers even if EQ'ed like good guitar speakers don't seem to have that magic. By comparison you might call the hi-fi speaker sound "dead." If not Eq'ed suitably then it might also be so muddy/boxy as to sound horrible to some some folks. Of course, if you record it and play it back on a muddy dac, etc., it might sound like all other more or less similar guitars on that system. Hearing a good amp and speaker live can be quite a bit different from what makes it through to many reproduction systems. Still, the live sound at least may hopefully inspire the guitarist to play well, even nobody else ever gets to hear it exactly the same way.
Regarding guitar amps and speakers, a nice guitar speaker can sound lovely/beautiful (what people sometimes call "chime"). OTOH hi-fi speakers even if EQ'ed like good guitar speakers don't seem to have that magic. By comparison you might call the hi-fi speaker sound "dead." If not Eq'ed suitably then it might also be so muddy/boxy as to sound horrible to some some folks. Of course, if you record it and play it back on a muddy dac, etc., it might sound like all other more or less similar guitars on that system. Hearing a good amp and speaker live can be quite a bit different from what makes it through to many reproduction systems. Still, the live sound at least may hopefully inspire the guitarist to play well, even nobody else ever gets to hear it exactly the same way.
It's impossible to call it anything, man, not without knowing what horrible sound you are referring to sounds like. Just lil recording would be easier
I don't think so. The best ADCs I have at the moment are an old Crane Song HEDD 192, and an RME ADI-2. Best dac I have to check on the quality of the ADCs is custom high performance DSD-only dac which I will not describe in more detail, unless perhaps someone really wants to know. Although many CDs were mastered in past decades on HEDD units like mine, neither it nor the RME capture everything as can be verified through any of the dacs I own, including the best one.
A few years ago in this forum I got similar demands like yours only then the people wanted me to record the outputs of different dacs so they could listen to them to see if they could hear differences. Do you see the problem with that?
A few years ago in this forum I got similar demands like yours only then the people wanted me to record the outputs of different dacs so they could listen to them to see if they could hear differences. Do you see the problem with that?
Got to remember that dispersion pattern of a hi-fi speaker is different to that of a guitar amp. I imagine the acoustic output of each could be easily discerned in a recording, in room. Much like comparing an electric piano with speakers to an acoustic piano.
Just a simple iPhone recording of a guitar playing through a hi-fi will be plenty enough. Of course, you will need a pre to lift the signal and the cab sim in place as per OP. Just curious to hear how horrible the output is
I tried recording an iphone of the guitar sound to send to my daughter. The lossy encoding was distinctly horrible in and of itself. Its like the camera in the iphone. It can't even get the color of my rug right, much less discern the existence of the mountains off in the distance.
Huh, do you have your wires crossed? I am not claiming anything, just requesting to hear a sample of that horrible sound that everyone is talking about. It would really help to see if I should get rid of some items that I have been saving but taking up valuable storage space
Without the low and high frequency roll off that shapes the sound of a typical guitar speaker, the additional harmonics added by distorted amps (or pedals) usually sound too bright when played back through full range speakers, as can be heard around 4:40:
Using amp simulators the sound of various amp/cabinet/microphone sounds can be (more or less..) duplicated on full range, flat response speakers.
Microphones also have distinctive frequency response, and speakers sound very different depending on where the mic is placed, so there is a lot to duplicating the specific recorded sound of a cabinet.
The impulse response of each portion of the chain has large effects on the sound:
That said, no matter how bad something sounds to you, there will always be someone else that that thinks it sounds great..
Art
I have been saving a Roland unit with two guitar ins and built in cab/amp sims for the same purpose as the op, guitar to sim to mixer to home hi-fi
Worried about why that would sound horrible, only saving the unit for the sims. Not worth keeping if it means horrible sound
So, if I strum a well tuned but unplugged electric, and hear nice clean steel ringing, if I plug that straight into a Yamaha MG12XU channel and set tone to flat, I should hear horrible sound and not just the clean ringing amplified? And adding the cab sim unit to the chain won’t help things?
I don't know about the OP, but at least for me, there won't be any point in hanging onto the BR-800 and maybe not even the desktop version of the flagship pedal. Cant remember the names as these are in storage 1400kms from me