This is spurred by post #48 at
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/human-speakers-81-dk-review.50915/page-3
"The woofer is supposed to naturally roll off ...in order to gentle cross with the tweeter that uses a single capacitor as the whole filter crossover" to which I replied "Once upon a time, I made something like that. And recall some drivers like that. Nowadays, I've been looking at a lot of different types and sizes of woofers and NADA. Nothing seems to roll off smoothly any more."
?!?
Am I blind? Missing something? Everything seems to have resonances on the top end and gyrations in frequency response...
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/human-speakers-81-dk-review.50915/page-3
"The woofer is supposed to naturally roll off ...in order to gentle cross with the tweeter that uses a single capacitor as the whole filter crossover" to which I replied "Once upon a time, I made something like that. And recall some drivers like that. Nowadays, I've been looking at a lot of different types and sizes of woofers and NADA. Nothing seems to roll off smoothly any more."
?!?
Am I blind? Missing something? Everything seems to have resonances on the top end and gyrations in frequency response...
Example: 2" dia VC = ~13543.31/pi/2 = ~2155.5 Hz - up BW, so damp the dustcap and to smooth its TL modes BW a bit, do a Lowther $0.98 tweak, both to 'taste'. 😉
Seas Prestige A26RE4 (H1411) is a 10" with smooth rolloff at ~ 2000 Hz.
It's important that the high frequency drive be high impedance, ie an odd order passive cross-over, or an inductor build-out (~6dB passive) for electronic crossover systems. A 0, 12dB, or 24dB low-pass filters connects a capacitor directly across the woofer, making the high frequency resonances hi-Q. The alternative is a very soft diaphragm that is dreadfully inefficient.
Here's some:
HIVi L6-4R 6"
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/updates/hivil6-4r
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/hi-vi-woofers-6-7/hi-vi-l6-4r-6-woven-kevlar-cone-4-ohm/
https://www.parts-express.com/GRS-8SW-4-8-Poly-Cone-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-292-480?quantity=1
post # 9,10 & 12
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/1489532-le-petite-sarcophage-r2
--
Italy
https://translate.google.com/
https://www.caninialtoparlanti.it/minidiffusore1.htm
MCM 55-2971
https://www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-2971/8-woofer-with-poly-conerubber/dp/80R7010
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/...240214-inexpensive-vintage-2-way=#post1951389
MCM 55-2960 Ampslab - possible?
https://ampslab-spk.com/2018/04/27/mcm-55-2960/
https://www.newark.com/multicomp-pro/55-2960/woofer-8-die-cast-professional/dp/13T7692?ost=55-2960
vs (just the graphs)
6FE200 + ST200 Adason
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/6fe200-st200.282141/
HIVi L6-4R 6"
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/updates/hivil6-4r
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/hi-vi-woofers-6-7/hi-vi-l6-4r-6-woven-kevlar-cone-4-ohm/
GRS 8SW-4 8" Subwoofer
https://www.parts-express.com/GRS-8SW-4-8-Poly-Cone-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-292-480?quantity=1
post # 9,10 & 12
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/1489532-le-petite-sarcophage-r2
--
Italy
https://translate.google.com/
https://www.caninialtoparlanti.it/minidiffusore1.htm
MCM 55-2971
https://www.newark.com/mcm-audio-select/55-2971/8-woofer-with-poly-conerubber/dp/80R7010
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/...240214-inexpensive-vintage-2-way=#post1951389
MCM 55-2960 Ampslab - possible?
https://ampslab-spk.com/2018/04/27/mcm-55-2960/
https://www.newark.com/multicomp-pro/55-2960/woofer-8-die-cast-professional/dp/13T7692?ost=55-2960
vs (just the graphs)
6FE200 + ST200 Adason
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/6fe200-st200.282141/
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for post #7 end
6FE200
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-1151-faitalpro-6fe200-4-specifications.pdf
6FE200
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-1151-faitalpro-6fe200-4-specifications.pdf
IMHO the best on the planet were the TAD 1601 series. Smooth to 1 kHz on a 15" woofer.
I’d pick poly cones like the H1571. In my experience such cones, with their damping, are useable with simple first order crossovers (baffle step has to be addressed of course).
The ScanSpeak 7" Revelator mid-woofers do this, but there's a discrepancy in how the top of the frequency range behaves depending on whether you use close microphone or 1m measurements.
The published FR (close mike) looks hard to deal with, and that's what you will measure if you put your mic 1/4" away from the dust cap but at 1m away it rolls off very smoothly and can easily be crossed to a tweeter with minimal parts.
This is definitely a case where I'd encourage you to avoid doing crossover design with close-mic measurements. Be lazy. 🙂
The published FR (close mike) looks hard to deal with, and that's what you will measure if you put your mic 1/4" away from the dust cap but at 1m away it rolls off very smoothly and can easily be crossed to a tweeter with minimal parts.
This is definitely a case where I'd encourage you to avoid doing crossover design with close-mic measurements. Be lazy. 🙂
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6fe200 is great midrange, efficient, powerful and can be used up to 5kHz, almost no breakups.
Check out this 12" woofer...FaitalPro has lots of great woofers. This is just an example.
Attachments
Monacor sph-175hq
Monacor sph-220hq
Seas U18rnx
Seas U22rex
Scan speak 18w/8542
Monacor sph-220hq
Seas U18rnx
Seas U22rex
Scan speak 18w/8542
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Do note that @head_unit asked for a woofer/midwoofer that can "run wild".
Meaning a impedance curve that rolls off the driver.
No cone nasty breakups in all it's range, unless it is way past the XO point etc.
Half of the drivers suggested does not even come close due to too extended response, and breakup/resonances.
And yes he should look for well damped cones/surrounds.
Polyprop, poly/mineral mixes etc, can be a good option.
Well damped pulp is often the best material, just hard to find anymore as noone is willing to pay for it.
For example the JBL 123A-2213A/H/ND/ND-1/ND-2. has a well damped cone, pulp and Aquaplas.
There is a reason it has been used for the exact same purpose for decades in L1xx series, 4311, all the 4312 versions etc. With no high or low pass.
TAD's cones are about 50% pulp/50% damping compound with damped surrounds. And one might notice they also don't have traditional circular recone kits again for a reason.
The reason they behave as well as they do, is that they do actual R&D and testing outside they're computer simulations 🙄
Like laser vibratory analysis, testing damping compounds and different cone compositions etc, until it behaves to satisfaction.
They managed that in the 1970's, and still not surpassed on that point to this day, so much for progress.
There is a reason why they are expensive to begin with.
Meaning a impedance curve that rolls off the driver.
No cone nasty breakups in all it's range, unless it is way past the XO point etc.
Half of the drivers suggested does not even come close due to too extended response, and breakup/resonances.
And yes he should look for well damped cones/surrounds.
Polyprop, poly/mineral mixes etc, can be a good option.
Well damped pulp is often the best material, just hard to find anymore as noone is willing to pay for it.
For example the JBL 123A-2213A/H/ND/ND-1/ND-2. has a well damped cone, pulp and Aquaplas.
There is a reason it has been used for the exact same purpose for decades in L1xx series, 4311, all the 4312 versions etc. With no high or low pass.
TAD's cones are about 50% pulp/50% damping compound with damped surrounds. And one might notice they also don't have traditional circular recone kits again for a reason.
The reason they behave as well as they do, is that they do actual R&D and testing outside they're computer simulations 🙄
Like laser vibratory analysis, testing damping compounds and different cone compositions etc, until it behaves to satisfaction.
They managed that in the 1970's, and still not surpassed on that point to this day, so much for progress.
There is a reason why they are expensive to begin with.
Here's some-
old
1 cap Audax HM170G0 nla
http://www.audax.com/archives/HM170G0 - Catalogue 1994.pdf
http://ekingsbu.users4.50megs.com/blurb3.html
---
1 cap Decware 945
Silver Flute 8" 4 ohm woofers- W20RC38-4
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...er-flute-w20rc38-04-8-woofer-wool-cone-4-ohm/
DECWARE High Performance 94dB efficient Bookshelf Monitor model DM946
Simple Silver Flutes 2 Way
=====
old
1 cap
KOBRA 16 MINI
Visaton W170 S8 or Morel MW162
How to construct ALTO I
1 cap
KOBRA 16 MAXI
How to construct ALTO II
=======
post #6 Purifi PTT6.5 woofer and RAAL 70x20xr ribbon tweeter.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ess-crossover-components.358031/#post-6292699
you could check Dynavox woofers at Newark
old
1 cap Audax HM170G0 nla
http://www.audax.com/archives/HM170G0 - Catalogue 1994.pdf
http://ekingsbu.users4.50megs.com/blurb3.html
---
1 cap Decware 945
Silver Flute 8" 4 ohm woofers- W20RC38-4
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...er-flute-w20rc38-04-8-woofer-wool-cone-4-ohm/
DECWARE High Performance 94dB efficient Bookshelf Monitor model DM946
Simple Silver Flutes 2 Way
=====
old
1 cap
KOBRA 16 MINI
Visaton W170 S8 or Morel MW162
How to construct ALTO I
1 cap
KOBRA 16 MAXI
How to construct ALTO II
=======
post #6 Purifi PTT6.5 woofer and RAAL 70x20xr ribbon tweeter.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ess-crossover-components.358031/#post-6292699
==========
you could check Dynavox woofers at Newark
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