I have no idea what the "Montreal ice storm of 1998" has to do with this discussion. If you would care to elaborate I'll read it.
But none of it has anything to do with the original subject I started the post with. Namely, that Teslas were performing very poorly, and sometimes not all, when temperatures were falling below freezing. And that this is essentially a fundamental problem with batteries used to power electric cars. They just can be depending upon in freezing weather. At best they still power the vehicle, but with considerably diminished range.
But none of it has anything to do with the original subject I started the post with. Namely, that Teslas were performing very poorly, and sometimes not all, when temperatures were falling below freezing. And that this is essentially a fundamental problem with batteries used to power electric cars. They just can be depending upon in freezing weather. At best they still power the vehicle, but with considerably diminished range.
This discussion is interesting. BTW some of our cars have air ducting and shrouding to keep the battery cool... Mine has an air intake which forces air around the battery and exhausts out the bottom of the battery tray.
Question: Does anyone know what the world's lithium resources look like? I always wonder if we all ended up with battery EV's whether there is even enough lithium to sustain this - (although I can't see this becoming a reality). Are lithium based batteries recyclable to any extent? Thinking about the number of vehicles on the road, could the world cope with the waste batteries? I know they are meant to last essentially the life of the car, but it's an interesting conundrum nevertheless.
Question: Does anyone know what the world's lithium resources look like? I always wonder if we all ended up with battery EV's whether there is even enough lithium to sustain this - (although I can't see this becoming a reality). Are lithium based batteries recyclable to any extent? Thinking about the number of vehicles on the road, could the world cope with the waste batteries? I know they are meant to last essentially the life of the car, but it's an interesting conundrum nevertheless.
Can we get back on the topic? I would hate to see the mods close this thread on account of all the brick-throwing.
EV and ICE both have issues...the thread illuminated the issues with cold which were seemingly unknown (or ignored) by early adopters.
WRT Lithium supply, one of my banks does a yearly analysis. Will find it. One of the issues is the oversupply from China.
EV and ICE both have issues...the thread illuminated the issues with cold which were seemingly unknown (or ignored) by early adopters.
WRT Lithium supply, one of my banks does a yearly analysis. Will find it. One of the issues is the oversupply from China.
There's a simple solution to all of humanity's resource issues and global warming. Stop having so many kids. Problem is, we're too stupid to figure out how to live without endless new consumers to prop up our economies. There's a simple solution to that as well but it gets very political.
Nothing works well in extreme cold, from horses to cars to people. Heck, if you lower the temperature enough, you can stop all chemical reactions, drop it some more and atoms start to slow down.
All that being said, they’ll have to improve that to achieve mass adoption.
Maybe hydrogen cars in the winter and electric the rest of the year! 🤣
All that being said, they’ll have to improve that to achieve mass adoption.
Maybe hydrogen cars in the winter and electric the rest of the year! 🤣
Yes, my first car with a heatable windshield was a Focus. You learn not to focus on the wires quite quickly. VWs with the same technology have been around for ages, but is not as common a feature as with Fords.
Any discussion of EVs has to also include hydrogen powered cars, which is probably the best all around answer. Particularly in terms of performance in cold weather. There is no degradation of performance or range at low temperatures.
Plus the recharging time is the same as current gasoline models. On the other hand recharging time with battery powered EVs at a public facility is a major problem in the winter in some areas.
The issue with hydrogen power is mainly the recharging infrastructure. Battery powered EVs have a big head start in that area, but don't count out hydrogren in the long run.
Plus the recharging time is the same as current gasoline models. On the other hand recharging time with battery powered EVs at a public facility is a major problem in the winter in some areas.
The issue with hydrogen power is mainly the recharging infrastructure. Battery powered EVs have a big head start in that area, but don't count out hydrogren in the long run.
Until we get Fusion down.
New “low cost” prebuilt nuclear reactors (the US Navy should go into that business).
Also ref the Grid: when 2-way charging becomes the norm every one of those EVs sitting on the charger will become a huge virtual power reserve, virtual power plants.
dave
At the moment it is a bit scarce but they are very quickly finding new sources and more friendly ways to mine it. Recycling will also be a signifivsnt source, and new batteries will come that likely do not use it.
And once we nail space mining i expect supplies will be way larger than we can imagine.
dave
Sorry, Dave, but if I've a got an EV sitting in my garage being charged overnight for me to use the next day, I'm keeping that baby fully charged up. Not giving any of it back. Not one milliwatt.
A honda 2KwH generator won't do jack to take that Tesla home!
Do the calculations.
A 2KwH generator, running likely at a constant 1700 wattsHr.
My Clarity PHEV has a 17.5 Kw battery which will take the car about 40 miles. If you were to drive it at 40 mph, this would drain 17.5Kw in one hour (17.5KwH).
To charge it with a 2KwH generator, it will take 10 hours and about five gallons of gasoline. Note: it takes about 12 hours at home off a 120V/15A charger or 3 hours off 240V/30A.
So, with the Clarity PHEV, I'm really much better off just filling up it's 8 gallon tank that gives me a range of 300 miles. ;-)
Now then, imagine a Tesla with a 70Kw battery.... if we had the same energy/range characteristics than the Clarity... do your calculations and you'll see the foolishness of carrying a gas generator in your trunk. You would need a ~35 KwH generator to make it effective. And where do you put the gasoline/propane?
As far as range... most people I know that have Teslas, the larger ones that run $100K+, have multiple cars. So, I don't see that as an issue.
A BEV should never be your sole car if you expect the freedom of the road.
Sorry Dave... we've been there.
We had a Honda Clarity Fuel Cell (FCEV) for three years.
Over in Japan they had a gizmo that you could use to power your house, but they never brought it to the US.... California environazis decided to kill FCEVs...
Which sucked because they gave us $15K of free hydrogen! And those fuel cells are huge power generators... it takes a lot of power to get a car moving down the highway. As I recall, at one point I calculated that a full H2 tank(s) -about 80 bucks- were good for almost 300KwH. Our home uses ~750 KwH per month. So, effectively, our monthly bill ( free actually ) would have been ~$200 bucks per month using the fuel cell... . $0.26 per Kwh.
I understand your point, but in the here and now they environazis are killing us. Shutting down San Onofre and Diablo Canyon with their combined 4.4GwH and providing nothing reliable nor capable in return. Last month, we used up ~900 KwH ( we charge the Clarity PHEV every so often ) and our cost was $450, $0.50 per KwH.. Note that the "net" rate charge from SoCal is lower, but after they add all the crap fees, that's what we pay.
Fusion and nano fission may be nice... but in the present we're getting f%&^^d... and the new "media" covers it up and ignores the whole thing.
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Let me give you a short story... for three years we leased a Honda Clarity FCEV Touring. It came with free $15K of hydrogen and the promise of many stations popping up all over the SoCal, NorCal and central coast.
Locally, along the freeway and near work we have access to several stations. But slowly the supply started to deteriorate and station permitting started to take very long.. to the point where stations dropped from the planned grid.
Why?
California environazis in NorCal decided against hydrogen ( I suspect nefarious political motives ) as a fuel.... they called it a "carbon" fuel. When confronted with that absurdity, they claimed carbon was used to create the electricity to require making hydrogen.. meanwhile ignoring the power coming our of your wall to charge the battery in a BEV.
So, the problem with hydrogen as a fuel cell fuel is currently purely political.
It's sad, as the FCEV was a great car, smooth, vibrationless, large, economical, quiet and easy to refuel... so long as there weren't ten damn Toyota in line...
Also, the discussion of EVs must take into account Serial Hybrids as well... which IMHO, are the best solution for a car used on public roads ( not a race track ).
I have a 6.6 kW solar panel array on my roof tied to the grid. A while back the power companies were giving fairly substantial feed in tariffs to the home owner using solar, but over time so many Aussies got solar that they found it was not economical to pay decent tariffs and reduced them to a pittance*, plus they are finding it difficult to maintain the stability of the grid which wasn't designed for reverse flows from the consumer. Hopefully a solution can be found so rooftop solar can become a standard thing on all new homes here.
Most days in summer we are generating 4kW by about 9am and it tops out at just over 5kW (limited by regulation), so it is a significant source of power for most of the day.
Anyway, my point is that adding a feed-back from car batteries to this mix might take a while to sort out.
*some States pay a better solar tariff.
You have to be willing to dig a little ( instead of obediently gobbling up the drivel from the Goebbels Media).
https://www.engineering.com/story/will-your-electric-car-save-the-world-or-wreck-it. I would love to have a battery powered hifi system charged by a solar array in my yard. Nice, clean power from an inverter. I'll bet some reading this thread do.
https://www.engineering.com/story/will-your-electric-car-save-the-world-or-wreck-it. I would love to have a battery powered hifi system charged by a solar array in my yard. Nice, clean power from an inverter. I'll bet some reading this thread do.
Funny you mention Davos. I think I read there are soo many private jets fly in for the event, the airport does not have sufficient parking. So the jets must be flown out empty, parked at another airport, and flown back in to pick up the attendee when they are ready. The thing I don't get is why does jet fuel not get a carbon tax. But what am I thinking, the ultrarich are special.
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