@limono That's an interesting one, isn't it?
With all the physical setbacks, surface mounting, and sharp edges, note that the tweeter is flush-mounted.
🙂
Dave.
With all the physical setbacks, surface mounting, and sharp edges, note that the tweeter is flush-mounted.
🙂
Dave.
I disagree... I wrote a lot of code in my career. Over many years I have built my skills as a wood worker and furniture builder.
Almost everything is difficult when we first start to learn. A router is intimidating for new users, especially for people who did not grow up using power tools.
We are not moving the DIY hobby forward by mocking people who are uncomfortable using a particular tool of technique... Let's just accept that some people want to build a speaker without the use of a router. Given that limitiation, let's help them build the best speaker they can build.
j.
@hifijim You're just repeating yourself from earlier in the thread.
If you need some examples of mocking fellow thread participants, just look at Jmansion's posts earlier in this thread.
Nearly any skill could be intimidating for those first attempting it. Were you intimidated when you learned to drive a car? When you first had sex? When you wrote your first program in BASIC?
Some people accept and push through those barriers.
Dave.
If you need some examples of mocking fellow thread participants, just look at Jmansion's posts earlier in this thread.
Nearly any skill could be intimidating for those first attempting it. Were you intimidated when you learned to drive a car? When you first had sex? When you wrote your first program in BASIC?
Some people accept and push through those barriers.
Dave.
I'm ashamed to say I bought a good router years ago but never tried to use it. I don't have a workshop; instead I have an office apartment with people in during workdays and neighbors at all times. Whatever I start I have to soon put away and clean up thoroughly. Instead, I use hand tools, dremel, and a power drill with ~20 hole-saws and various bits/cutters. Since the pandemic I've managed to try out maybe one speaker idea a month, on average. Amp parts have been waiting for me to conjure up a workbench....
This year (ten days) already I have tested using my general-purpose 17L TLonken: scrounged $170 Tannoy Precision 8 dual-concentrics (2nd-order LP 1.8khz 0.63mH | 12uF; 1st-order HP to taste, deduced from pictures of the XO); minor cosmetically challenged $50 Taiwan Hicastle 8" bicone fullrange (like my Lowther PM6A, double notch filters ~3khz and ~8khz). Trying to gather parts before Chinese New Year shipping stoppage!
The speakers I want to work on: SB Satori TW29R/MW19TX-8 stepped baffle (32mm offset acoustic centers!) possibly with the MW (only) tilted back and surface-mounted (9mm flange!), and minimum CtC for near-field tweeter-on-axis listening. Hmm, mission impossible?? Any help greatly appreciated. (XO 1st-order series 1.9khz judged-by-ear flat and well-aligned.)
This year (ten days) already I have tested using my general-purpose 17L TLonken: scrounged $170 Tannoy Precision 8 dual-concentrics (2nd-order LP 1.8khz 0.63mH | 12uF; 1st-order HP to taste, deduced from pictures of the XO); minor cosmetically challenged $50 Taiwan Hicastle 8" bicone fullrange (like my Lowther PM6A, double notch filters ~3khz and ~8khz). Trying to gather parts before Chinese New Year shipping stoppage!
The speakers I want to work on: SB Satori TW29R/MW19TX-8 stepped baffle (32mm offset acoustic centers!) possibly with the MW (only) tilted back and surface-mounted (9mm flange!), and minimum CtC for near-field tweeter-on-axis listening. Hmm, mission impossible?? Any help greatly appreciated. (XO 1st-order series 1.9khz judged-by-ear flat and well-aligned.)
Because life is too short in a world that has Java, Moore's Law and decent IDEs? Assuming you really are advocating only using a computer, text editor and a free compiler.
And yes, I have used C for a production environment. The same base code in multiple, different environments, in fact.
Then the IT world realised that using C, and ++C (as it should properly be called - you really should increment C before you use it) for application programming was using a sledgehammer to crack a nut!
Nerd interlude over.
If you really are so completely accomplished at staring at a screen then maybe it's time you started learning something real rather than virtual. Using a router, maybe?
That would be a far better use of your time than simply berating people who have taken the time to learn something it appears you can't be bothered to even try.
Yes, One of the reasons to like the new Markaudio baskets (no rebate required) over the older ones (rebate required).
dave
I agree with this.
Just to be clear, I wasn't mocking anyone, or at least it's most definitely not the intention.
I have just a different idea of how to use the word "difficult" like I said in post #158
Difficulty for me goes into levels of complexity and abstractness.
A limitation for me is something else.
And yeah, I agree, we all have our limitations.
Which is 100% fine, nothing wrong with that! 🙂
Like I said before, in that case you just have to be a bit more creative with the solutions! 🙂
(I have already shared a few 🙂 )
For me, making speakers is something to occupy my mind, something to vent my creative sensibilities, and helps me enjoy the music I love; I don't really care how long a build takes, in fact I've got too many speakers already, so I'm in no rush for more. I like using hand tools - I have a hand plane instead of an electric one, I know a bandsaw is a terrible way to cut wood straight, but it's what I've got. I'd like a router, but I can manage without - in fact it just adds a challange. I have no wish to 3D print parts, but I still find it an interesting technology, and I'm glad that others use it, or decide that getting cut parts from a woodshop is best for them; some follow an existing design, some buy a kit, some spend a fortune - I like the challange of making a speaker as cheaply as possible, (using second hand wood if it's available) and trying to make something that's original; there's plenty of scope in this hobby for us all, in fact isn't that it's greatest strength?
I'd rather have a debate with someone with a different perspective, than my own; in that way I might learn something.
I'd rather have a debate with someone with a different perspective, than my own; in that way I might learn something.
You don't have to suspect - certain speaker designs do just that. Jeff Bagby's C-Note springs to mind, mostly because I have a pair playing in front of me right now. Technically the mid overhangs the edge of the waveguide, rather than the tweeter itself but they'd need to be a minimum of 0.5" further apart without the flush mounting of the tweeter and its waveguide allowing the mid to overlap. I built the boxes for them myself. 'Cabinet' it a rather grand word for my handiwork!
There seems to have been a lot of talk about how dangerous power tools are. I tend to disagree - there are only people using them dangerously. Leave one in its box on the shelf it's only dangerous if it falls off the shelf!
The jigsaw seems to be some people's 'friendly saw of choice'. I have sawn into a bench on occasion with one - it bucked really quite alarmingly.
Some have said that circular saws are 'safe'. I disagree - mine is the second scariest tool I own, after my chainsaw. TBH the scariest thing about it is the safety guard - its 'manual operating lever' is scarily close to the blade and in 'auto mode' the guard sometimes retracts, sometimes sticks closed, sometimes open, sometimes seems to push the saw off or up at certain cutting depths. I tiewrap the guard open when I use it in 'tablesaw mode' and I sometimes wonder whether I should leave the tiewrap on permanently!
The router comes about 4th on my list of scary tools.
Even something as seemingly innocuous as a hand belt sander is damned scary on occasion too!
None of this stops me using any of the them. They are necessary tools to build speakers anything like properly and satisfyingly (for me, anyway). Well maybe not the chainsaw...😉
Just treat them with the respect they deserve and follow a few simple precautions, like:
Don't use them when you are tired. At best they just allow you to make mistakes faster!
RTFM - Read the Flipping Manual!
Experiment slowly and carefully, with small cuts etc, and then work up from there.
First try should be on something you can afford to throw away.
Beer only happens AFTER the workshop session is over.
Exercise your judgement. Good judgement comes from experience. Unfortunately experience comes from bad judgement. Mark Twain.
As it happens I have not actually bought any power tools to build speakers - I already had them from other projects for cars, bikes, planes and the home.
I have bought new blades, cutters, roundover bits etc for them for speaker building and learned to use the kit in new and exciting ways. Learning new things is at least 50% of the reason I keep turning sheet materials into sawdust!
Sorry for going on a bit - I'm sure I am preaching to the choir here!
This is why knock down kits with cabinets were invented / supplied. Companies like CSS do this so your first time DIYer doesn't have to worry about anything (crossover, driver selection, cabinet making skills).
Your assessment about impact on diffraction is correct - increasing problems with shorter wavelengths. The more lips or steps or sharp angles "in the way" from the waveform propogating from the baffle will introduce anomalies. I can't speak for the impact of stepped baffles, such as the ones Troels' uses in his designs.
There's a gap in the market for surface mounted "smooth framed" woofers. The Peerless SDS is probably the last in the line here. At least that means the woofer holes don't need rebating.
I use a jasper jig and have problems with accuracy as the fit to my router has 1mm slop. My ryobi plunge router is not the best either, I have problems with collets not grabbing bits and them slipping. I really need to look at building a better setup. Like most things, crap tools make the job a lot harder and put people off.
Your assessment about impact on diffraction is correct - increasing problems with shorter wavelengths. The more lips or steps or sharp angles "in the way" from the waveform propogating from the baffle will introduce anomalies. I can't speak for the impact of stepped baffles, such as the ones Troels' uses in his designs.
There's a gap in the market for surface mounted "smooth framed" woofers. The Peerless SDS is probably the last in the line here. At least that means the woofer holes don't need rebating.
I use a jasper jig and have problems with accuracy as the fit to my router has 1mm slop. My ryobi plunge router is not the best either, I have problems with collets not grabbing bits and them slipping. I really need to look at building a better setup. Like most things, crap tools make the job a lot harder and put people off.
I thought I answered that in post 2: "flush mounting can be a pain, particularly if you don't have a Jasper Circle Jig. However, flush mounting something like a a little Vifa XTSC90 is still a pain. Would this issue put off DIY-ers? Yes."
Geoff
how about this - adjust it to your satisfaction.
https://www.kwerl-acoustic.de/?p=2070
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indoor outdoor carpet
https://www.kwerl-acoustic.de/?p=2070
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indoor outdoor carpet
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Aaargh!
Too many fora, too little time.
You are correct. Lead designer was Chris Perez.
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/...note-mt-bookshelf-speaker-kit-pair-other-kits
Post #8
My worthless $0.02..... Routing is fun and can be done with a cheap laminate trimmer. A one-off circle guide can be made from scrap wood in minutes. Routing a rebate and flush mounting is ridiculously satisfying. Well worth the effort and learning curve. A laminate trimmer is WAY less scary than a ~400V B+ that valve amp beginners routinely tackle.