Hi, I am an Elvis tribute. I play to backing tracks. My shows so far have been for 100 people and the venue was approx 1000 sqft.
I am looking at playing to approx 350, inside, and the venue is 4500 sqft.
I have 2 x Alto Ts415's. Probably myself and 2 backing singers plus the backing tracks.
Is this enough? or will I need more?
Many thanks
I am looking at playing to approx 350, inside, and the venue is 4500 sqft.
I have 2 x Alto Ts415's. Probably myself and 2 backing singers plus the backing tracks.
Is this enough? or will I need more?
Many thanks
You will not need any more power provided the speakers are mounted at about head height so the bodies wont absorb the output. In fact Ive used less for an outdoor venue.
Thanks Bone. If the speakers are on tripods on stage, they will be quite a bit above the heads. Is that ok?
Depending on SPL expectations, those Altos might really struggle.
If this is a one-off gig, I'd recommend renting something in, and relegating the Altos to stage monitor duties.
Chris
If this is a one-off gig, I'd recommend renting something in, and relegating the Altos to stage monitor duties.
Chris
It really depends on the expectations.
For 350 people inside, they will likely be able to hear you.
It would be skimpy in most circumstances, fine for others, unworkable on others.
In a venue that size, I am usually using a 12" top over a 18" sub on each side, and depending on which speakers I have available sometimes that still doesn't feel great depending on the coverage. Some speakers are just fine for that (I have not-quite-pro-level JBL SRX and they don't work as well as my buddys Clair Bros stuff) and some aren't so great- I think that you're asking a lot from those little altos with no subs.
Like, if everyone is quiet any attentive and charitable to you, it's probably okay-ish but not "good". If the audience is talking to each other and drinking while you're performing, it's likely not enough.
Really, who knows though.
Anyhow, to your other question, it's okay to have the speakers substantially over the audience- much better than having them blocked by the front rows, which is the point of elevating them.
For 350 people inside, they will likely be able to hear you.
It would be skimpy in most circumstances, fine for others, unworkable on others.
In a venue that size, I am usually using a 12" top over a 18" sub on each side, and depending on which speakers I have available sometimes that still doesn't feel great depending on the coverage. Some speakers are just fine for that (I have not-quite-pro-level JBL SRX and they don't work as well as my buddys Clair Bros stuff) and some aren't so great- I think that you're asking a lot from those little altos with no subs.
Like, if everyone is quiet any attentive and charitable to you, it's probably okay-ish but not "good". If the audience is talking to each other and drinking while you're performing, it's likely not enough.
Really, who knows though.
Anyhow, to your other question, it's okay to have the speakers substantially over the audience- much better than having them blocked by the front rows, which is the point of elevating them.
Hi JohnReeve, My Alto's are 15" tops (Is that right?) so I would just need to add 2x 18" subs to them?
I would advise subs, but idk how you're going to fit two 18inch inch plus amp+crossover for 350 in any currency.
Though in my experience two good 15inch tops can be enough depending on the act and space.
Though in my experience two good 15inch tops can be enough depending on the act and space.
Well, as I said, without knowing the specific situation and expectations, it is hard to know. As above, what you have could be fine depending on what you're doing and where you are doing it.
I can say that adding subs let you push the tops less, which is good.
But we all have different demands and expectations.
Really you just need to try stuff and see if it works and if you're okay with it, as that's really the only way to know.
For vocals alone the Altos should be loud enough but the backing tracks will eat up some of that... depends on how much low bass there is in it. Adding a single decent powered sub and engaging the crossover on the 415's would suffice for an act like this where the vocalist is the main attraction, if you decide to go this route rent a sub if possible.
It is generally considered bad practice to have subs on either side as it creates power peaks and valleys.
On one hand, yeah you are correct. It is a real thing, especially with electronic music. If I can, clustering subs in the middle or the side is good or even just using a single good sub is just fine. The last time I did that, though, was at a b-stage for an electronic music festival where I was mixing bands. It was not a big stage, the subs were maybe 20' from each other. And the producer still didn't like it even though I could hear a very pronounce power ally when I was playing tracks.
So, on the other hand, there are a lot of other compromises in live sound that a lot of us work under. Most of the places where I work either already have this deployed as such, need a speaker as a base to support the top, and since the band is just using the subs to push the kick/bass/keys/floor tom, then all of those other concerns override the worries about power alleys.
This weekend I set up a pretty nice powered Clair Bros rig w/ and 18" and one of our smaller array boxes on top each side, and although it was an Andrews sister's tribute with tracks, the main issue was the fact it was snowing on us all day. It sounded quite good, though, "power alley" notwithstanding.
So while you're correct in a sense, the folks "generally" considering these things aren't the only folks in the world making musicians loud. I know that my boss will be putting out a 2x18 on each side under 3 array boxes and a flown 18" sub for our gig this weekend- it's quite a good sounding rig and we do a lot of national acts
The venue let me take my speakers along to see how they sound.
I used a dB meter on my phone and at the front of the hall it hit 85 to 90. At the back of the room, it was 80 to 85.
The room was empty and the speakers will be high on a stage. Most of the backing tracks aren't too bassy.
I may also add a couple of backing singers.
Does this sound OK to you all?
I used a dB meter on my phone and at the front of the hall it hit 85 to 90. At the back of the room, it was 80 to 85.
The room was empty and the speakers will be high on a stage. Most of the backing tracks aren't too bassy.
I may also add a couple of backing singers.
Does this sound OK to you all?
Elvis was a 50's act. Heavy bass was not part of the 50's experience. The equipment was not yet invented. The Beatles played Yankee stadium through the house sound system, no bass at all.
If your audience talks, 85 db is not enough. If they are reverently silent, it might be. This is winter in UK. People will be wearing several layers of clothing which soaks up the sound by contrast with summer shorts & a tee-shirt. Height of mids & tweeters above the floor with the sound projecting down at the heads is desirable. Evens out the back with the front.
Note ALto 415 spec does not list a SP level at max watts. Watts input does not equal sound out. 2.5" voice coil woofer doesn't give me a lot of confidence. The 1508-8 kadt 15" in my SP2(2004) have 4" V.C. That is a 124 db performer.
If your audience talks, 85 db is not enough. If they are reverently silent, it might be. This is winter in UK. People will be wearing several layers of clothing which soaks up the sound by contrast with summer shorts & a tee-shirt. Height of mids & tweeters above the floor with the sound projecting down at the heads is desirable. Evens out the back with the front.
Note ALto 415 spec does not list a SP level at max watts. Watts input does not equal sound out. 2.5" voice coil woofer doesn't give me a lot of confidence. The 1508-8 kadt 15" in my SP2(2004) have 4" V.C. That is a 124 db performer.
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Actually, they do.
They claim 132dB continuous. Now, of course these figures need to be taken with a large salt cellar of salt, but I"d guess they are probably somewhere around the 120dB mark in real use. So either the OP is not hitting them hard enough to get full power, or the phone SPL meter is rubbish (hint - they usually are), or perhaps a combination of the two.
That said... I'd add properly crossed subs. Keep the lows out of the two Alto to give them more watts to chew on for the mids.
The Altos dont seem to be too bad as lower end powered speakers go.
Cheers, and regards,
Ant
A claim of “xxx dB continuous” is usually just taking the nominal half-space reference sensitivity (SPL 1m/1W) of the primary driver -while cold, not at operating temperature- and simply adding the number of dB above 1 watt that the amplifier can deliver short term. Real world use is always some 10-15 dB less considering crest factor and the thermal limitations of the driver and amplifier. It’s not a grain of salt, it’s the entire Dead Sea full of it.
... which is why I estimated about 12dB less.
... which is why a said a large salt cellar of salt, not a grain. We may quibble about the actual quantity, but the point is much the same.
Cheers, and regards,
Ant
In my opinion, 85dB is not enough, notwithstanding the possible inaccuracy of the phone sound meter. I would aim for mid 90s.
There is no way those speakers could do 132dB. That would be peak so reduce by at least 6dB for the real figure. Even then, it implies that those speakers are more efficient than the best on the market.
You do not need subs for an Elvis tribute. Cut the lows. Get the speakers up as high as you can and angle them down to head height at the back of the room.
There is no way those speakers could do 132dB. That would be peak so reduce by at least 6dB for the real figure. Even then, it implies that those speakers are more efficient than the best on the market.
You do not need subs for an Elvis tribute. Cut the lows. Get the speakers up as high as you can and angle them down to head height at the back of the room.
Here's an article I wrote on the subject, after arguing with the sales guys of a reputable manufacturer: https://www.prosoundweb.com/spec-wars-looking-inside-loudspeaker-spl-specifications/
Short version: those speakers might produce 132dB, for a very short period, they'd be lucky to survive, and it sure won't resemble the input signal.
I stand by my recommendation to rent something in.
Chris
Short version: those speakers might produce 132dB, for a very short period, they'd be lucky to survive, and it sure won't resemble the input signal.
I stand by my recommendation to rent something in.
Chris
I suspect the built in limiters would kick in well before 132dB bit I agree that hiring in asditionsl speakers would help.